INTRO:
Emma
In this episode of Midlife AF, you will meet my friend and fellow grey area drinking coach, Faye Lawrence. She is the founder of Untoxicated which is a social group for people who want to go to events with other people who are not drinking. It's a huge organisation that she's created, and a really beautiful, safe space for people to meet wherever they are on the journey with alcohol. Both Faye and I have been recently diagnosed with ADHD. And in this episode, we talk about that experience in detail and what it felt like and what it's meant to us at these fairly early stages for us of adjusting to the diagnosis. We talk about our experiences with the health system, and we talk about what's good, and what's bad for us about having been diagnosed, what to do if you think you might be ADHD, and we also have a bit of a giggle and we get very distracted. There's one section in the middle of it, where Faye’s phone goes off and the sound quality isn't that great. So please bear with us with that. Faye is a spectacular person. And she's a great advocate for alcohol free living. She's on the path to being the same as an ADHD person. She's also a psych graduate, who's studying counselling and she's got a brilliant TED talk on the importance of fun, socialising and connection on this journey. There are so many women out there who identify with the symptoms of ADHD and as we get to midlife, those symptoms become exacerbated. I think you'll enjoy this conversation. Take it away!
MAIN EPISODE:
INTRO
Emma
Hello everybody. Me and the lovely Faye Lawrence are here to talk about our experience. I'll get Faye to introduce herself. She's an amazing person. She's got a TED talk. I stalked her for years and then she eventually gave in and became my friend. And here we are!
Faye
Thanks for tuning in! I'm Faye Lawrence, I’m the founder of Untoxicated which is an alcohol free social community. I started that when I stopped drinking five years ago, or coming up five years this year. Because I realised there was a serious lack of things to do for people that didn't involve alcohol in terms of socially. And I also graduated with a psych degree a month after getting sober. I'm a grey area drinking coach as well. I think that's everything, isn't it? Oh, and I've just been diagnosed with ADHD
Emma
So Faye and I have known each other for a little while. We did our grey area drinking coaching together. And then funnily enough, we have become friends and we've been exchanging our experience of life as you do. And there's been a lot of commonalities between us and we’d be on a coaching session or a coaching call in the grey area drinking, I'd text Faye afterwards and go ‘was I too much? Did this person who's leading the call hate me and all this stuff?’
Faye
It’s true. We were the worst of the six.
Emma
Absolutely. I know, for me, certainly, when I found this since the beginning of doing all this stuff on Zoom is if I’m in a group, I really struggle if I don’t go first.
Faye
That's one of the main reasons, one of the many, but it's one of the main things that I realised that not other people did. And I always thought it was down to growing up in a big family, which is that inability not to butt in, or not finish people's sentences or jump in. Because if I don't jump in straight away, the thoughts are going to be gone.
Emma
Yeah, totally. 100% and I have to write it down and then I'll be twitching away in the corner thinking I'm not gonna know what I'm talking about in a few minutes.
Faye
Yeah. And people find it rude and they're like, stop let me finish.
Emma
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. Like, because my little, my eldest child, because I found out that I was ADHD because both my kids got diagnosed relatively recently. I think this is really common with people who are assigned female at birth is that they don't often get picked up as being ADHD until they're much older and the same with autism as well. If they are female assigned at birth, kids tend to mask a lot better and they don't tend to draw as much attention to themselves, and I think for a long time, ADHD was perceived to be a boy's condition.
Faye
Yeah, 100%. And perceived to be something that you grow out of in childhood or at the end of childhood. So adults aren’t generally, you know, and it's so interesting, Emma, because I've worked in the disability space for quite some time. And in other work where I do the marketing, communications and corporate affairs stuff. And, you know, I'm quite well versed in autism and neuro divergence, and yet, here I am, 49 tomorrow, not realising I'm actually neurodivergent. And I'm quite at the more severe end as well. So it's, it's so funny how, like, something that's right in front of your face. And you think, you know, because I worked in early intervention for autism, and you know, I've done a lot with the autism community and not saying that it's the same ADHD and autism, it's not, it’s quite different, but there are overlaps. And yeah, you can't see the wood for the trees sometimes. So interesting.
Emma
Faye and I were just laughing and talking about how in midlife and I'm sure so many women feel this way. There's so much stuff going on. We've got our hormones with perimenopause, potentially, I mean, so many women find that the perimenopause symptoms exacerbate what may be an underlying ADHD situation anyway, because the brain fog, you know, so many of the things that come along with perimenopause are quite similar to some of the things that happen with ADHD.
Faye
The fatigue, the forgetfulness, and as you say, Emma, the brain fog, you know, all of these sorts of things are definitely more pronounced when the oestrogen is essentially draining from your body. And as we were saying, Russell Barkley, who's kind of one of the experts in the space, he talks about, there's quite a distinct link between female hormones and ADHD, the symptoms. So he was talking about how it's much more pronounced in adolescence, for example, for girls, and then again, menopause time. So it's interesting that, you know, this, you and I have both been diagnosed, which is sort of a, I think it's a kind of fork in the road with sobriety with perimenopause. And there was something else that I forgot!
Emma
It doesn't matter. Faye and I decided at the beginning of this that we're owning the brain so it's just is, so just expect this as we go through.
Faye
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I think it's that sort of time in your life where, you know, I think especially once you've taken sobriety out of the picture, because I did suspect that I might be before I was sober. And I actually went to a psychiatrist back in 2014. And he said to me, after about 20 minutes, 25 minutes because I've got quite a lot of trauma in my history. He basically was like, dismiss me, go off and read The Untethered Soul by Michael Singer, which is a very good book, right? But that really set me back because he didn't take me seriously. And I thought, you know, are well, I'm, I'm just neurotic then. And so that's eight years that I feel, essentially, you know, wasted really, in that I could have been making strides knowing what I was dealing with. And it's hard not to feel, you know, because I've fairly recently been diagnosed, I'm still in the aftermath of, you know, finding out and it's hard not to feel angry about that particularly when going down the path of addiction. And what we know is that there's a very strong link with all forms of addiction. My psych who's a an ADHD specialist, said the four main ones that he sees is alcohol and drugs, gaming, sex, and gambling. Yeah. And he actually said when I asked him why he got into ADHD in particular, he said it's because he previously worked in prisons and then in rehabs, and he could see how much undiagnosed ADHD was, was there and he said, in rehab, probably between 60 to 70% of patients. So, you know, this is what angers me is that had I been diagnosed or had this been mooted a long time ago, when I was proactively trying to seek a diagnosis.I've had a lot of dealings with mental health professionals over the years in therapy and all of that, and it's just never been suggested, could the addiction possibly have, you know, not gone down the path that it went? That's, that's the thing that really, you know, angers me to be honest. And so that's why I want to speak openly about it. I would hope to let other people know about this, because then, you know, they can kind of pull up a stance that it's not them. It's the friggin, it's the lack of dopamine in your brain.
Emma
Yes. And I think that, for me is the biggest change is that knowing, like, all my life, I was always like, the disorganised one, the you know, the person whose head was in the clouds, the person who couldn't focus couldn't sit down and do her homework, couldn't do, you know, and was always, you know, getting into trouble for doing impulsive things, and might remember my mum saying to me, Emma, why do you do these things? But I'd be like “I don’t know!”, But I thought there was something like, you know, wrong with me that I was broken. And I'm like, well, this is interesting. Now, it's not about being broken. Because both my kids are the same. They've both been diagnosed with ADHD, and subsequently with autism, but once I was going through the testing with them, I was like, Jesus, it's so freakin obvious. I was like, Oh, my God, it's just totally my experience. And yet, we didn't know, we didn't know.
Faye
And for anyone who's like watching this, that doesn't know much about ADHD, and I'm still learning myself. And I'm certainly not an expert or a medical professional. But your brain actually when they do MRIs on your brain, your brain is different. So the makeup of the brain is different. Different parts of the brain fire up. So it's, it affects your prefrontal cortex, and that's your executive functioning. and that's things like, you know, that memory organisation, sort of doing things methodically, being able to self regulate, or emotionally regulate, so that impulsivity, you know, these are all things that are impacted, and you go through your life, I think, thinking that it is a personal failing, why can't I get my shit together? Like everyone else? Why can't I don't like everything else? How does everyone else manage to do all this stuff? And I can't Why is this so exhausting for me to say, for example, to work full time, and other people can do that, and they've got hobbies, and they've got, you know, all these other things and exercise and everything that they do, and I'm finding just going to work is like, that's enough.
Why do I have these sensory things, for example, that really impact me? So you know, one of the things for me was like, if I was ever in a food court, it was like hell on earth, because it's just there's too much happening. You know, and then noise is one that I know now in sobriety that is something I find it hard to tolerate. So to be able to work in an open plan office, I have to have headphones on. And I realised that some time ago, I just didn't realise it was the ADHD that was causing that I didn't understand why other people were able to tune it out, and I couldn't. And the procrastination, I mean, I remember Google, like, “why can I do, you know, make myself do things?” and studying stats as part of Psych was just like hell on earth.
You know, like trying to force your brain. I think kind of a lot of time, you know, berating yourself for being lazy or being not as motivated or being, you know, late. If anyone's listening is feeling this way, then you know, it could be worth exploring if there's something else going on.
Emma
Definitely, yeah. You and I had quite a different experience. Didn't we have our diagnosis? In fact, it was almost polar opposite of, you know, how they went about it. And I think that's worth talking about. Because, everybody I know, it's such a minefield, trying to work out what to do and where to go and XYZ. Do you want to talk a little bit about yours?
Faye
Yeah. Look, I, so I, as I say, went in 2014. And then again, this year, I was like, nah, something's not right. And I was reading, actually, Jenny Palintich’s book, “A Woman of Substance”, which is brilliant. Yeah. And in it, she's talking because I was doing a writing class with her. And in it, she talks about getting an ADHD diagnosis herself. And she was talking about all the research and I was like, that's, that's me. That is me. She was talking about all the things in the link with addiction. And I was like, wow, I don't think I've heard this before about the addiction link, or I just haven't paid attention. And it just dropped into place. So I went to the GP, I had a nightmare trying to get an appointment with a psychiatrist that went on back and forth for months, couldn't get in, didn't even get an appointment. And I was just because of what they do, they've got such a long waiting list for psychiatrists six to 12 months. They leave it with them while they decide whether they can take you on because their lists are so heavy. So they want to look at your file, look at the referral and then go yes, I'll take you on as a patient or no, I won't. And eventually, I found out through some ADHD Facebook groups that there was someone down here on the Gold Coast, who is a clinical psych that does assessments, but they can't prescribe.
So a psychiatrist is coming from the medical paradigm predominantly, and they will prescribe drugs, because they're ultimately GPS with the psychiatry on top. Whereas a psychologist can't, a clinical psychologist can't - but they can diagnose.
I went for two sessions to rule out other things, because there's a lot of other things that can present similarly to ADHD such as depression, anxiety, addiction, autism, bipolar, trauma, you know, there's a number of things. So they have to, essentially through a process of elimination, rule that out. And then on the third session, I went through a barrage of testing. So some of those were like an online test called the Tova test where they test your response time. Another one was a load of questionnaires and things like that. And then what he does, is he takes the data away and looks at it all together and compiles a report. So I went back for the fourth session, and he said, You know, it's 50/50. Before you go forward for testing, especially with my history, and that's when I got the diagnosis. Moderate to severe. Both inattentive and hyperactive. And honestly, I was quite shocked. Yeah. I was like, I burst into tears. Yeah. Because it was validating, but also it was like, I wasn't expecting that. I was as bad as that. And he was basically saying, look, it's, you know, quite surprised you even managed to complete a degree. Yeah, that you've functioned as well as you have.
So you know, that was the experience and now I'm doing coaching but now I've got to go through the rigmarole again to get medication, so I had to go and get another referral. I'm now waiting to see a psychiatrist or see whether they'll take me on so I can get medicated. So it's really somewhat frustrating because now you know, you've got the diagnosis and you can't get the medication. So imagine and being told that you've got diabetes or you've got, you know, heart disease or something and tough, you've got to wait another six to 12 months before you can get the medication for it. You know, it's, it feels quite unjust to me after, I suppose waiting so long to get a diagnosis. And then now it's like there's a carrot dangling. And, you know, you've got to jump through hoops to go to the next step.
So yeah, that was my experience. How about you?
Emma
Yeah, well, mine was a lot easier. I'm not necessarily saying it was better, because I reckon the amount of detail that you have as part of your diagnosis is much, much more in depth than what I got. But I was very fortunate in that I was talking about it with somebody and they recommended I look on the ADHD foundation website, because they've got the latest places with the shortest amount of waiting time. So I went there. They recommended this place in Sydney, which just does online diagnosis, I think it's called dokotela, something like that. And it's, and it is, it's psychiatrists. And I had to do a whole load of testing beforehand. And then I saw the psychiatrist, and they were like, yes. You have ADHD - both types. And, then they sent my GP a prescription, and then my GP prescribed me since and I've been being monitored for that.
So I've been on medication. And I'm finding because I've been doing this launch in the lead up to it, I'm finding, I have been able to focus in a way that I wasn't able to focus before I would definitely say whereas like you when I was at uni doing my counseling stuff, Jesus Christ, every unit was like pulling teeth. Not because I do it, like I love learning about it. But just the idea of sitting down and writing an essay and reading a textbook, I had to find so many tools to help me do that. External to myself. It was incredible.
Faye
And that's one of the things that they said to me that, you know, ADHD brains have two modes: boring or not boring. And if it’s boring, forget it. I was working from home consulting before COVID. And I used to think, Why do I have this struggle with myself? Like it would be three o'clock the night before? And I'd be like, on a client project and just going like, why do I do this? And once I got into it, I was fine, but it was the thought of sitting down and doing it.
Emma
I’ve got a question there: how has life changed since the meds? Well, I haven't been on them for very long. I think in my first month, maybe a little bit longer. And like I said, it's a focus more than anything, I'm able to focus. That's what I've noticed more than anything else. And I actually feel a bit calmer. But it's difficult to tell though, because I've also just started my HR2 meds so I'm like a rattling pillbox but um, so I don't know what's, what's one and what's another. So it's difficult to tell, but I'm definitely feeling calmer, less tired. And more focused, because although I was laughing with Faye, because when I did my Masterclass on Monday, I literally finished the presentation about half an hour before I went on. And it was like, oh my god, I knew that I should not be leaving it to the last minute but there's something about me that just can't help it.
Faye
100% Well, you need the adrenaline you need that you need that time pressure to be able to perform. And that's one of the things is that your ability to wing it is second to none. My ability to wing it and to be thrown in at the deep end and perform is really strong. So it's not all negative there’s a lot of positives as well. But yes, you know, I think in the coming to terms with it process I think, you know, it's interesting because like I work in the autism community before, I've done quite a lot of work in that space and disability, and you know, me, I'm all about reducing stigma with the addiction stuff as well and breaking down barriers and talking openly. But then when you find that you've got a disability, or a neuro divergence, and you're like, oh, wow, it takes you back a bit. It's sort of like “oh it’s fine when it's other people, but now it’s me!”.
Emma
But it's sort of like things could be so much more different. That's really bad English. But you're I mean, things could be so much so different. If we had more knowledge about it, if there was less stigma about it. I mean, this concept that people have of people with ADHD is very different, I think, than the reality for most people. And often it can be coupled with such crippling anxiety, I think that was the thing for me when I was younger, was like, yes, I'd have all this drive and stuff, but then my anxiety would just completely cripple me. So that, you know, I couldn't speak or I just felt so awful about myself with questioning myself all the time. And those sort of two things together, which come very often, both my kids are ADHD, they both have anxiety, and it presents in different ways, but it's a blessing and a curse. But I think the more that we and people like us can talk about it, and the more common it becomes, for people to investigate it, the more that, you know, schools start to sort of educate using, you know, being aware of, you know, different approaches to education. And same with, you know, workplaces and everything. I think it's just another one of those things that needs to get more mass, so that we can accommodate each other for being different, you know?
Faye
Yeah, it's interesting to me two things that are interesting to me. Sorry, someone's just trying to find one thing, you know, how autism is really much more accepted these days, but yet ADHD isn't. So you know, even sort of, as you know, speaking about this, I was like, Oh, I've been fine to speak about addiction. But I'm not sure I want to speak about this, because I feel like this is probably coming out about this, so to speak, it more feels like more of a career impediment in other work that I do than the addiction stuff. So that's interesting to me. But the other thing is, I think, as well, and there is like, the fact that it's not detected, it's a bit like with drinking, because if you're high functioning, you know, what's going on the surface is like, Yeah, I'm holding it all together, but at what costs behind the scenes. So that's, and that's what leads to the burnout, as we know. And that's another thing where I've always felt like, why can't I do what other people can do? Why can't I hold down a jump in this game? When can other people do it? Why do I leave after 12 months? Yeah. And, you know, why do I need time between contracts? Because I constantly find working really draining, and I burned myself out. And yeah, the addiction side is in with that. Because, you know, I remember as well, one time, the first time I got really, really drunk, I was about 13. And I distinctly remember, and now obviously, I know this was ADHD - it switched this off. I was calm. And I'm hoping the meds are going to do it for me, but it's switched off. And I think now that was ADHD.
Emma
It's so interesting. I think it's one of the main reasons that women come to me and I'm sure for you as well, because they run a coaching business. That is one of the main reasons that women say, Why do you drink? They’re like “to stop this noise in my head, so that I can stop and sit down and not have that constant chatter and constant to-do list and constant just ugh all the time”, you know?
Faye
And I think that I was reading earlier today, something that was put out by a professor of addiction and it was saying that people with ADHD I think In case about 60% of people with ADHD have problematic relationship with alcohol, and so if you are undiagnosed, that's what's going to be happening and you don't know that actually that's happening through essentially no fault of your own through a lack of baseline neurotransmitters that everybody else has. Yeah, that we don't have. Yeah, so it's, it's, it's helped in that way in that I feel like, you know that that kind of thing wasn't my fault. There's, there's less feeling of, I suppose, shame around the addiction. But yeah, I'm still angry about the fact that this could have been picked up a lot earlier and possibly prevented. And I think people need to know about it for that reason.
Emma
Definitely. Definitely. And I think that we'll find more and more women getting diagnosed, I think it is becoming, you know, quite prevalent now that women are recognizing some of the things…
Faye
How many women are disorganized? When I did my part about being diagnosed, I always had people contacting me women saying, “I think I've got it.”
Emma
Yeah. Yeah. I think neuro divergence is much more widespread than we've just all been conditioned that we, you know, to try and fit into this kind of then I don't know, right, the right word for it. But you know, the normal, yeah, normal kind of way of masking and trying to behave like that and thinking that there's something wrong with us, you know?
Faye
Yeah. Yeah. And I think the other thing as well, you know, that has been a relief is I felt like I wasn’t somehow doing sobriety properly sometimes. Because everyone else was sort of. I felt like everyone else was saying, you know, “I've been sober now for a year. And I've got like, you know, I get up early in the morning, and I've got my morning routine, and I go running, and I, you know, and I do all the stuff and I quiet my mind”. And I was like, “I do yoga, I do meditation, I do this, I do that. And yeah, I'm still constantly on edge”. And I'm constantly like a pinball machine, and I can't do it. I'm gonna do morning routines. And I struggle to get out of bed in the morning. And all of these things, which now I know is the ADHD, and I couldn't understand how, you know, running Untoxicated. At one point, we had the support group there, we had, like, 3000 people in it, and people were talking about, you know, all these amazing things. And while I was definitely noticing, like a huge amount of benefits, being sober, all these things were eluding me and I was like, but I don't understand why I'm still as knackered as ever. Yeah, and I know all this stuff. And now I know why.
Emma
Yeah, I totally, totally and I apologise because I pressed something and now I'm sparkling. I don't know if you've noticed. I was fascinated Faye, and I think it's a really useful conversation. And the more we can keep, we can keep having it and I can see that Loz, said me too. Yeah, and interestingly, I find a lot of kinds of women entrepreneurs as well seem to be in that ADHD space. I think when you know, quite often you find you don't quite fit the mold.
Faye
Yeah. Yeah. 100%.
Emma
Yeah, yeah. And I definitely had that experience myself. And I loved working in corporate for years. I loved it so much, so passionate about it, but, you know, I had two instances where I had a toxic, toxic boss. And yeah, I just couldn't quite fit the mold of what I think I was supposed to be and I didn't really understand why or how to fit the mold. And so I just did it.
Faye
Yeah, I think there's a part that isn't there that you're somehow different from other people, but you're not quite sure why. And I always knew that I was quite a bit kooky. But I think maybe this is why, you know, with untoxicated, and everything and why I've been so fervent around the belonging, piece that I should have somewhere to belong, because I think you feel when you've got ADHD that you don't quite fit, you don't belong. And you're sort of always on the periphery somehow. And even though I've always had lots of friends, and that has been an issue, still that thing of somehow I don't quite, you know, I'm always sort of slightly on the outer. And maybe that's why I thought on reflection, I'm so passionate about making people feel like they belong. Yeah.
Emma
100%. And you have done that. And I think community, like you say, is so important in this journey. And you were saying, Are you part of an ADHD group, as well?
Faye
I was just trying to see if I can get the sparkles as well. I mean, I feel it’s unfair. Oh, no, I put a filter on. Oh, gee.
Am I in an ADHD group? Yes. So it's actually quite similar to early sobriety in that I'm obsessed with learning about it. I'm in the community, I'm absorbing everything I can, I'm attributing everything to my ADHD, nothing's my fault. It's all the ADHD. I'm looking retrospectively over my life. And going, Oh, this makes sense. Oh, that's annoying. I mean, one thing that's important, I think, to let people know is the heritability. My Psych said it's about 80%. So what that means is, if you do think you might possibly have ADHD, then look around you to your parents and your children if you have them, because there's likelihood that it's in the family. And, you know, when we're in a family unit, we know what we know, because we're all taking it as normal. But he said to me, you know, it's, it's pretty likely at least one of the kids will have it. And I think my mum's got it as well.
Emma
I said to Faye earlier, it's interesting, because you don't realize it's like with my little one, she's just been diagnosed with ADHD and autism. And now in retrospect, I'm like, of course she is. But at the time, you're just doing what you do, aren't you in deep and you're just like: your normal’s, your normal? Right? That's how you are in your family system. It's like, you know, that's it. Like we were saying, it's kind of like how your parents have behaved, like, I'm sure my dad has ADHD as well. Very similar things to me was always, you know, getting into trouble when he was younger and impulsive and that kind of stuff and, you know, forgetful and a bit scattered. And, you know, but it just wasn't a thing so it wasn't, you know, wasn't known. Same thing.
Faye
See, my mum's always been, you know, quite a you know, offbeat type of character. And she's quite forgetful. And my kids were saying to me, like, I'm pretty sure you've got early onset Alzheimer's, one of my kids in particular. And, you know, I think, you know, apparently there's quite a similarity between ADHD and Parkinson's. Yeah, right. Okay. That's interesting. Yeah, the impact with the lack of those particular neurotransmitters and so how it how it impacts your life in terms of forgetfulness, the executive functioning,
Emma
yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I can see that in my kids, too.
Faye
Yeah. So what I did when I thought that I had ADHD was I wrote a massive list of all the things that I thought possibly were, you know, maybe a little bit different to other people. Yes. And took that to the practitioner.
Emma
Yes, yes. And funnily enough, that's what I needed to see with my GP because actually, I missed that step out. I had to go to the GP to be referred, first of all, to that place that I said in Sydney. And it was, that was actually quite a battle. You know, it was almost like she didn't want me to be. And I was, I was very lucky, glad that I'd prepared a list beforehand of all the different things and eventually she was like “oh, ok”.
Faye
That's what I'd like people to do because there's still a lot of lack of knowledge, and there’s still even in the medical profession. And I think that, you know, you kind of really have to self advocate and because I'd already had that experience with the psychiatrist who basically sort of shooed me away. I didn't want to do that again. So I was like, no, I need to kind of be prepared myself. Because the other thing is, unless I prepared a list, I'd forget. Yeah, so when they ask me what the symptoms are, I won't be able to remember. I prepared the list. And then I felt like okay, I've got, you know, a download of what I'm dealing with. And then I just added to it as I thought of more things. And, you know, one of the things I've got here is a struggling food shop.
Emma
Yeah, my god cooking, eating, you know, any of that stuff.
Faye
When the kids were little, the thought of being able to put together a meal plan and actually do all the steps is completely overwhelming to me. Put me in a place where I need to get shit done and make things happen and problems because of the heightened intensity. No problem.
Emma
Yeah, I understand that. I have to listen to podcasts if I'm ever doing anything boring that I hate because it's the only way I can actually get some shit done.
Faye
Yeah. The thought of actually having to think of the recipes or source the recipes, write the list, get every single bit, go to the shop and get every single thing with no missing ingredients, come back and then cook the things and then oh, no, I've just oh my god. Way too much.
Emma
I’m the same with washing up, stacking in the dishwasher. Any of that stuff is just like, too much to manage.
Faye
Huge amount. So I'm doing coaching at the mument, which is, you know, but um, he's so flat out I can only get in once a month. And that gives strategies and things like that to be able to better manage.
Emma
Yeah, it's so interesting, isn't it? Because I've, I've found strategies as I've gotten older that I can use through trial and error, but the idea of teaching them to my children is just so painful to me. And I feel really embarrassed by that. It's like the idea of having to try and teach my children how to do something that I find really fucking hard is overwhelming.
Faye
Yeah. And honestly, I've even found it like, as you know, with the coaching this is why I don't put a lot of content out is because I just can't. It gets too much for me to think about. Oh, God, what am I going to write about? And what am I going to you know, and then yeah. I'm not too good with the details as is pretty prominent in this disorder. So what strategies have you found to be the best?
Emma
That's okay. I'm so glad you feel seen, that it's so lovely. Oh, that's fantastic. Just silly things like always having my stuff in one bag. Like always having that bag ready to go with all my stuff in otherwise everything just falls apart and I lose everything. Like I said, listening to stuff when I'm doing boring things I hate like the housework. Something that I find interesting so that I can do it without kind of really knowing I'm doing it is really helpful. I have to use, for study, I have to use something called FocusMate, which is where you co-work online. That's the only way that I will sit in my seat and do the work. If I've got somebody with me, otherwise, I'm just, I'm just making popcorn, my Instagram is the best it's ever been. I always say to Faye: You can tell. You can tell when I'm supposed to be doing something else, because my Instagram will become phenomenal.
Faye
Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah. 100% Unless there's a deadline, I get it. Yeah.
Emma
Exactly. And even content, creating content for me now I have to actually go and hire somewhere to be. Because if I'm left to my own devices at home, it's not happening. Not happening at all.
Faye
Yeah. So there's all these workarounds? And what about for you - because I'm not medicated - what about for you in terms of quieting? The mind? Have you found anything successful for that sort of sense of calm?
Emma
For me, it's so much what we learned in our grey area drinking, coaching, too. It's all the vagus nerve, it's all the polyvagal. And for me, it's physical stuff. It's going through the body, it's going for a swim in the ocean. It's having a walk. And I know you like that too. Physical things, moving my body. And going to my nervous system through my body, not through any kind of cognitive discussion.
Faye
I agree with that. Because I think with anything, that’s sort of intellectual, it can just sort of go round and round and round and round and round. Whereas you need to get out, you need to get out. But I think not drinking has been a huge help in being able to create some distance between the thought and the action. So I'm a lot less impulsive than I used to be, for example, I am still reactive. And I get frustrated really quickly. And I find things intolerable that other people just accept, you know, as part of work/ life or part of relationships, or whatever. And it's the biggest inconvenience in the world. Yeah, but I've never had space. With taking alcohol out the piece is massively helpful and being able to deal with this.
Emma
I agree. And I also think that sometimes, we have used alcohol, so we can put up with shit. And when you take alcohol out of the equation, you can't put up with shit that doesn't sit well with you. And it's, I think it's a journey into that now, it's like, okay, so I'm honouring myself by not letting shit that I don't think is acceptable. I'm not putting up with it anymore. I’m too precious to myself. Right?
Faye
Yeah. And I think also, and this is the sort of the piece that I'm on at the moment is around this, which is what I did with the alcohol. And this is what I'm sort of starting to do now with ADHD, okay, it is what it is. Yeah, this is who you are. How do we own this? Yeah. And, you know, just really fully kind of embrace what is. And part of that embracing and accepting is like, yep, some of this is shit. And some of it's good. Because I don't believe in, you know, this sort of toxic positivity. And I think also like knowing that, okay, for example, if I do a job, it needs to be a contract where I'm going to have downtime afterwards, or maybe something else is going to be better for me maybe working full time is just, maybe it's better to take a 20% hit in terms of income and you know, lifestyle. I'm not sure what that looks like yet, but just knowing that this is the way I'm wired. Yes, I'm going to be able to put some strategies in place and meds and all of that, but ultimately, I've got to work with what I've got.? How can I best do that? Now? That's the next bit.
Emma
And it's been interesting with me and with my partner, I've been having discussions because my spatial awareness is, like, really bad. And that is apparently a part of ADHD. It's quite a common part of ADHD. And he used to get really angry with me about it, like, “Oh, my God, why do you keep bumping into things? Why do you keep not being able to park the car properly?”
It's actually that my spatial awareness is really bad. And it's like, well, actually, this part of me now, so you can't really tell me off. People can't really sort of, it's a little bit like you can kind of stand up and say, well, actually you can’t give me a hard time about this anymore. Because I'm genuinely doing the best I can. And it's not that I'm just being, you know, clumsy or forgetful. It's that, you know, I genuinely have an issue with my spatial awareness.
Faye
That's actually quite validating that space? Yeah. You know, why I feel that now like that, I'm not doing this on purpose. It's not because I'm lazy. It's not because I'm, you know, sort of a failure as a human being. It's just, any more any more than someone who's, you know, possibly got a physical disability, if you want to class it as a disability or not, you know, they might not be able to have the use of a limb or, you know, whatever it is. So it's like, okay, well, this is what it is. It's not my fault. And I'm just gonna try and do the best I can. And other people, you know, might need to make a few allowances along the way.
Emma
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And it's frustrating. But also, I reckon there are some, there are some positives about it as well, I think. I definitely think that we will learn and amalgamate it into our personalities and feelings, we'll get to a place like we do with drinking where we feel like it's cool. And it's fine.
Faye
I think so. I mean, I've always quite liked being a little bit quirky. And I'm already thinking about becoming an ADHD and alcohol coach. I've already been looking into the ADHD coaching that my psych recommended because he did it. So, you know, I don't know where this will all end up. But it's yeah, it's, I think exactly what you say you'll end up kind of, you know, bringing that in as part of your identity and running with the strengths, running with the positives and making allowances for the theories that you're not as strong like you said, outsourcing stuff, or just accepting or pivoting.
Emma
Absolutely. And that's what we do, isn't it on this journey that we're on?
Faye
Yeah, exactly. And, you know, really, hats off to us. This is what my psych said that we, you know, managed to do everything that we've managed to do to this point.
Emma
Absolutely. Oh, my goodness.
Faye
Leah’s put a comment here. I've seen that I've just ordered groceries through HelloFresh because I found shopping awful. That is 100% What I do most of the time now. If I'm doing food shopping on our order online, I find it's so much easier.
Emma
We probably should finish our first we could talk all day.
Faye
If anyone wants some more info or wants to know, or where to start, there's heaps of ADHD accounts on here as well, that I've joined, following and there's plenty of ADHD groups on Facebook. But if you're thinking that maybe this is something that you know, might be part of part of the piece for you then start jotting down and there's two websites CHADD and ADDitude. And they're the two to get the information from because they're their peak bodies. They're the ones that have kind of got the latest research and the official resources. So if you're thinking that this might be something that's in the mix for you check those out, because as well, it does present differently for women.
Emma
All right, my lovely. Well, you have an amazing rest of your day. Thank you so much for coming on and talking to me about this. I know it's a subject close to both of our hearts. And I know how we both get passionate about advocating for these kinds of things when they come in our radar. So beautiful to have you here. And take care and I'll see you soon.
Faye
Thank you for tuning in as well. Thank you
