If you're a woman in midlife whose intuition is telling you that giving booze the elbow might be the next right move, then Midlife AF is the podcast for you. Join Counsellor, Psychotherapist, This Naked Mind and Gray Area Drinking Alcohol Coach Emma Gilmour for weekly natter about parenting, quirky, teens, menopause, relationships and navigating this thing called midlife alcohol free. If you're feeling that life could be so much more, that you're sick and tired of doing all the things for everyone else, if your intuition is waving her arms manically at you, saying it could all be so much easier if we didn't have to keep drinking, come with me. Together we'll find our groove without booze.
Emma: It's very nice to see you, my friend. Very nice to see you. Amy and I are joining you from our cars in the car park.
Amy: Why are we doing that?
Emma: Because we made an arrangement to do Instagram lives together, and then we decided to meet up and do them together next to each other. And then we realised that that wouldn't work in the Instagram live format. And so we're now in our cars in a carpark in Brighton.
Amy: Tech savvy, problem solving.
Emma: So here we are, my beautiful friend Amy. And we were just talking in our car about how wonderful this community is and how lucky we are. I was referencing a neurodiverse podcast that I had been listening to, and in there they were saying how quickly we are able to kind of, when we meet our people, really relate to them very quickly by getting into the deep stuff about our lives rather than skirting around the surfaces.
And I think that's definitely true for people working in the sober space. People in the sober space. So we were just reflecting on that this morning. And Amy is, for me, has been incredibly welcoming. And we both met in July 2020 in a chat room with the lovely Sammy Wilson during the club sober.
Amy: I can't even remember what it was, but it was a global mindful drink. It was their online, like, Covid Safe Festival. That's right. And I was a new alcohol free baby because I'd only just stopped drinking, like, a month before. That's right.
Emma: And I was not far behind you because I stopped in January, and I just finished training as a This Naked Mind coach. And we've kind of known each other on and off since then, haven't we? Yeah. And I will talk a little bit more about Amy's inclusivity, but Amy's always been incredibly inclusive with people in the sober community and open and welcoming and just a wonderful human being.
So I'll invite the beautiful Amy to talk about herself, her journey, her business. And we both went through This Naked Mind Alcohol Experiment, and that's how we found our freedom from alcohol. And so we will talk a little bit about that as we go along as well. Amy, I'd love to hand it over to you to introduce yourself and tell everybody a little bit about your journey and your business.
Amy: Yeah, well, I guess I won't go into too many rotten old stories, but my journey was total boozehound.
Very much like a weekend binge drinker and had been for a long, long, long time. Like, total party girl. I am mega, mega social. Still am. Probably a lot more social now than I was even when I was drinking because now I don't feel guilty all the time, which is a bonus.
Well, things kind of escalated for me after I had my daughter, who's now six. I feel like I had a mega identity crisis when I had her as a new mum. Like, I'm never going to be able to go out again. I've lost my life and it's never going to be the same. And I thought everything was over and all of my partying days were behind me.
And so then as soon as I could start drinking again, I mean, even when I was breastfeeding, I was one of those nightmare people. When I was breastfeeding, I had like the calculator and I was like, well, I can have like one and a half drinks in this little window and I'll be right this little window. And my rule was like, if I'm safe to drive, I'm safe to breastfeed.
Emma: Yeah, I hear you, sister. I was similar,
Amy: So I had that calculator going, but then as soon as any window of opportunity opened, I was like, all the wine all the time, anytime I was away for work.
My relationship at the time was quite, I didn't really realise it, but was quite controlling. So anytime I was away from home, I would just obliterate myself all the time. I just completely lost my off switch. It was just gone.
And that's nothing special to me.
Emma: So many people. It's the nature of the beast, isn't it?
Amy: That's alcohol, if you have a couple and all well intentioned plans go out the window, but like, it was to dangerous levels and I ended up in hospital, like, at least three times, like in emergency. I broke my arm when I had a one year old because I was squatting in a bush, having a bush wee on the way home from Bruce Springsteen.
I fell and broke my arm, and couldn't get my pants up. Oh my God, so many things. But it was always like, that was an accident, that could happen to anyone. It wasn't the alcohol fault, it was always like, it had nothing to do with it, it would have happened anyway. So there was really like hardcore social drinking going on for quite a few years and then I think a lot of resentment started building in my relationship, so I was kind of drinking to escape that and then getting really angry when I was drunk and then that was like making it like a cyclical thing where that was just making it worse.
And then during lockdown, everything really escalated. My anxiety kicked in big time with not being able to go anywhere and how I got put on antidepressants and the antidepressants said, don't drink when you're taking these. I was like, okay, that's merely a suggestion, I'm sure. Yeah, whatever. So I kept drinking and I was just like it just made the alcohol so much more potent.
And I was going off a ledge into a black hole after six drinks every time. And I was unwell. I was like, spewing really quickly. It was just awful. But it didn't stop me.
It was like, now I'm a cheap drunk. As a bonus, I don't need to buy as much booze. But it just got to a point where I was like, I was drunk and angry and I was so sick of myself and there was no positivity in it anymore. And I just sensed that I'd completely lost control and I wasn't enjoying it anymore. And I just happened to have a very fortuitous conversation with a girlfriend in New Zealand who had done the alcohol experiment and wanted to talk to me about it for some random reason.
It was just like a perfect alignment thing. And she told me about it and she was like, if you stop drinking, you can have the best of both worlds. You can do all the things that you want to do and you don't have any guilt and you're present in the moment and you'll actually enjoy it more. And it's totally changed my life. And I was like "oh". Because I tried to give up many times.
I'd tried moderating, I've been through counselling, I've done all the things and none of it ever worked. And it was like, I have to have a line on the sand here and I'm going to give this alcohol experiment a go. Went out for a long lunch, blackout drunk by 430 in the afternoon, preparing the last hoorah. And then that was it. And I woke up the next morning, I was like, oh my God, I don't know what I did.
Tell me what I did. I'm done. That was it. And then started the alcohol experiment. And I have not looked back.
It was just instantaneous. It was just like a switch that got flipped. And as soon as I started learning the methodology behind it and just the science and the rationale and all of it, I was just like it was like, I've been brainwashed. It was like, what have I been doing all this time?
I mean, it wasn't necessarily easy, but out of that I just sort of got on a roll with it. I joined as a mentor in subsequent experiments and just really enjoyed being in that community. I found community to be such a big part of it because you feel like you're not alone in it at all. You're surrounded by all these people who are feeling exactly the same things as you are and going through the experience at the same time. And I loved that and I wanted to be able to support other people in that.
So I just stuck around in those communities for as long as I could.
Even now, I've been through some horrifically stressful things. So that was June of 2020. I've been through so much shit in those two years or whatever it is. And on the odd occasion I've been like, "oh, maybe it would be a good idea to have a drink now and just avoid what I'm going through". But just the science, they just boom.
Things just drop in. It's like, you know, it's not going to help you and everything's going to be there in the morning and you're only going to feel worse. And I just have that ingrained in me now that it's not a good option. Yeah, but the good news is I'm not missing out on anything at all. My life is better now than it ever has been.
Emma: That's exactly it. It's like a big lie, isn't it? That we've all kind of been tricked into believing that it's the elixir of life and it's not at all. When you did the Alcohol experiment, can you think of a couple of the things that you learned in there that were big? Did you have an AHA moment while you were going through it?
Amy: One of my biggest ones that really stuck with me is her band aid analogy. So that using drinking for stress relief or avoidance is like putting a bandaid over, like a weeping wound, like it's going to cover it up for a minute, but the wound keeps bubbling away underneath and it's only going to explode and be so much worse in the long run.
That always just sticks in my mind. The sleep stuff's kind of arbitrary to me. That doesn't bother me. It's more like the confidence stuff and the knowing that you have the inherent ability in you to do all the things that you think that alcohol is giving you, all the things that you think alcohol is giving you is actually taking away. Once you remove it.
You have to do all the things sober and then you realise, I can actually do all of these things. And I'm a lot stronger and more confident than what I ever gave myself credit for. When I was drinking and working, I would be horrified at having to get up and speak in front of a group of, like, ten people. And now with my work, I get up and speak in front of a room of, well, I did like a presentation in front of 150 people the other day. It's nerve wracking, but I would have died trying to do that when I was drinking.
And that's only because of the confidence that's come since giving up. Yeah. It's. That what you think alcohol is giving you, you've got it.
Like all the socialising stuff. Like, I'm not going to be able to go and talk to people, I'm not going to be able to make it work, I'm not going to be able to meet new people. It's all too nerve wracking. Like, none of it is true. And the more you do it without alcohol, the better you get at it.
Emma: Yeah. Like building a little confidence muscle. That's right. And there's something about reconnecting with yourself, isn't it? I felt like, for me, when I stopped drinking, you sort of start discovering who you are and having that sort of you almost have to mother yourself or parent yourself a little bit and say, no, it's going to be okay, we can do this, and, like, you're holding your hand, your metaphorical hand.
I find that a lot of my stuff I have to kind of go now. C'mon Emma, we can do this. Before, I just used to bugger off and have a bottle of wine.
Amy: Yeah. Really interesting observation.
Emma: And do you want to talk a little bit more as well, Amy, about what you do for your business? Because I'm passionate about Amy's business. I'm constantly talking about her, recommending her to other people, because when I stopped drinking, I found alcohol free drinks helpful in my journey.
And I'm not just talking about alcohol free replicators, like, where we replicate alcohol, but I'm also talking about the other drinks that are available out there as well. And I found Amy and a couple of the other women in the sober community were really advocating for more representation in a number of different spaces. And I know for myself, I've often called up a restaurant beforehand to say, what have you got? And sometimes they're lovely and gorgeous, but then occasionally someone will just be like, not interested and a bit rude. And it makes your little heart sink and it makes you feel sad and small and a little bit like you should be ashamed, even though, of course you shouldn't. So I wonder if you could talk a little bit about your business and why you do what you do and what you do.
Amy: I guess the core of my business, my mission is to kind of connect people with the best alcohol free drinks so that they can enjoy them, not have the FOMO, still feel like they're an adult when they're out having a drink. And I'm kind of approaching it in a whole bunch of different ways. So the core was just started with reviews. So I've got a website with, like, 160 different product reviews on there, which I started because that's what I wished I had when I stopped drinking, because I wanted to have non alcoholic drinks, and I was like, I don't know where to start.
The ones that I've tried are pretty shit. Like, I'm wasting so much money buying stuff and tipping it down the sink. So I wanted to provide a platform that helped people and show them that there was good stuff and this is the good stuff. Go for the good stuff, not the shit stuff. And then that sort of led to once we could go out again.
Starting to do events. So I've been coming to Melbourne monthly and running tasting events and I love doing them because you get a room full of people all with different experiences. Some are sober-curious, some are not at all, or some are totally alcohol free. And they come and they try new things that they wouldn't have tried before and they fall in love with new drinks and just the realisation of how much of an impact these drinks can have.
Emma: And I should say that these are not for everybody. Like some people who are on the heavier end of the spectrum with drinking, they can be quite triggering for them. So they are something to always kind of approach with a bit of caution.
Amy: Yeah, I was doing the events which I'm still doing and I'm doing corporate ones as well, which is what I want to do more of is doing them in workplaces because then I'm like getting catching people unawares, who might not be contemplating not drinking, but then they might try something. And actually I could incorporate this into my weekday and have alcohol free beers during the week instead of alcoholic ones. Being able to get people in and show them just how good some of these things taste is awesome.
And then I'm working very hard and I've got some good partnerships happening to get stuff into hospitality. Because as I've seen the industry blossom over the past twelve to 18 months and the products are there and the quality of what's coming out is there. The consumer side of it's all happening, the retailers are happening, it's all booming. But the hospitality side of it is kind of slow. And I get it because hospitality is still struggling.
They've been through the ringer with COVID no one's got any staff. All of their businesses are just kind of, I mean they're just trying to get by. So the alcohol free drinks probably isn't a priority but what I'm trying to do is make it a little bit easier for them and show them that the market is there, that consumers are willing to spend money on them and there are great venues that are already doing it and doing it well and seeing reaping the rewards of it really. Because if you go somewhere and there's a drink there that's not a soft drink or a soda water, it's like this is amazing. And you're going to come back there.
Emma: That's right, take your friends there and you're going to stay for 2 hours longer than you might have if you were just stuck on a soda water. I was just going to say I love all your events that you've done in Melbourne.
I've tried to go to as many as possible. And they're so great because they're at the Victoria Hotel, often in Footscray, which is one of my favourite places, too, because not only do they have fantastic yummy, yummy food, but they have the most amazing alcohol free drink list.
Amy: Big tip of the hat to Anthony Hannon, who's the publican there for being so forward thinking and really championing that inclusivity.
Emma: Yeah, because it does make such a difference. Like, I speak to so many clients in my groups and they're just, you know, having that option, and, again, as Amy says, understanding that for some people, it can be a trigger.
And if it is a trigger, if it feels like it might make you want to drink alcohol, then absolutely avoid them and drink something else.
And there's so many lovely alcohol free drinks that don't replicate and they're actually some of my favourites at the moment. The ones that don't replicate alcohol. There are some beautiful ones out there.
Emma: What are you liking?
I love etch. I always love etch, it is so delicious and I feel like for me, it's got everything because it's not sweet and I don't really like sweet, so I love it. And then I'm really enjoying some bitters like I found. I went to Sip and Enjoy and I picked up a couple of bitters that are kind of slightly coffee, just unusual. I like an unusual cordial, if that makes sense. Yeah, because then you can have a play with it and make your own drink.
I love tea. I love teas. Yeah.
So tell us more, Amy. You talk about your business, you're going into catering, you've been doing your events, you went to London, didn't you? Want to tell us a little bit about that?
Amy: It was like the best thing ever! I was in dreamland. I got invited by an organisation called the IWSC and they are the International Wine and Spirits Competition.
So that is a very prestigious alcoholic wine and spirits competition. It's been going since, I think the 1960's and they've only had a non alcoholic drinks category for the past three years and they invited me over there to be a judge, which was an incredible experience. And now I'm about to book my tickets for next year. I'm also the Australian brand ambassador now, so I'm going to be working over the next few months to get Australian drinks companies on board and entering for next year. But, yeah, that was an incredible experience, to go over there and do two full solid days of blind taste testing and seeing where the market is in the UK and the community that's there.
And also, the cool part of it was like, going in there and being sat on a judging panel with experts. I call myself an expert, but I'm not really on the booze.
Emma: You're our expert.
Amy: Yeah. We're going and sitting with like these proper wine people and like my opinion is kind of stacking up with theirs and everything aligning and me being able to communicate what I liked about the drinks properly and it made me feel like, oh yeah, I'm on the right track, I know what I'm doing.
I'm not just making it up. I'm making it up in the right way.
Emma: Well, I have to say your wines that you recommend, I always follow and love them. Like the reds that you did in your red tasting, they're absolutely brilliant. And I never thought like you that we'd find a decent red wine, but they're smashing, they're really good.
And whenever Amy holds an event, tasting event, she has the list and you can write what your thoughts were about the different drinks that are on offer. It's so beautifully relaxed, low key, social. Amy has a beautiful way with people. Really inclusive. And she's massively knowledgeable about this area and so I highly encourage you to visit her website.
She's doing such great work and getting out that advocacy for us people who don't drink to have some really nice options because it makes such a difference to people. It can be the difference between someone starting drinking again.
Amy: It really can. It really can. Yeah.
And what's important. I think. About what I present is that it's interesting just watching it even in the last twelve months because there's so much more available in supermarkets and the big liquor shops and people are trying those things and having these experiences. But that's like one part of it and there's so much more that's available and being able to present all of those wines to people and them be like. Oh.
Okay. There's actually better stuff that's available. It's not just necessarily what's in front of me, that's what's best. And there's so much more to enjoy. And everyone deserves to drink the best things.
Emma: That's right. We all deserve to have a nice drink when we go out for a special occasion and not to be made to feel like we are on the outer.
Amy: So I'm actually heading off to Sydney at 06:00 a.m tomorrow because I've got a tasting event in Sydney tomorrow night in Coogee. Brilliant. Which is exciting because I don't even know where that is.
Emma: It's at the beach.
Amy: It's going to be 26 degrees and sunny tomorrow in Sydney, so I'm going to have to go and buy some sun cream.
Emma: You still got tickets for sale, Amy?
Amy: Yes. So there are still tickets for sale on my website for that.
And it's like the venue is beautiful. Coogee wine room. And we're doing some lovely food to go along with all of the drinks. So the tickets for that. And then what I'm doing my next event in Melbourne is on the 20th of November and I'm taking everything because I've done that series all year where I've done like a different category every month and I'm doing like the "best of" for the year.
Emma: Amazing.
Amy: So it'd be all the highlights of the year and I'll try and get some producers there to talk about their products, which is always really cool. Well, it's lovely to listen to me for 2 hours. It's also good to hear from the makers and hear what goes into the drinks and everything. So even though that's not till next month, the tickets are on sale for that as well.
Emma: That sounds awesome. Thank you so much. Thanks for coming on, spending time with me and these lovely people.
Amy: Should we go have lunch?
Emma: Let's go have lunch so we can be with each other rather than being in our own cars.
Very good. Thanks everybody for joining us. Thanks so much Amy, for sharing your experience with the alcohol experiment. Welcome. And all the ways that people can find you. I love her. She's amazing and definitely go on her website. All right, my lovelies, what is it? What's your website?
Amy: drybutwet.com.au
Emma: Perfect. All right, see you later. Bye. Thank you.
Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of Midlife AF with Emma Gilmour. If you enjoyed it, please share on Instagram for your friends and tag me @HopeRisingCoaching. If you want to help me grow the podcast, please review the episode for me on Apple podcasts that really helps. If you would like to work further. With me please go to my website www.hoperisingcoaching.com for my free and paid programs or email me at [email protected] sending a massive cuddle to you and yours from me and mine and remember to keep choosing you.
