EMMA: Hi there, welcome to this week's episode of Midlife AF. This week we're going to be talking to one of my wonderful clients, Ali. Ali talks so honestly about what is very typically a winding journey with alcohol - ups and downs,stops and starts - and her experience in their being part of my alcohol experiment programme. And now Ali is part of the Be The Lighthouse which is the more ongoing Pay As You Go membership programme for women who have made the decision that they are moving towards a alcohol free life or a longer term break from alcohol. And I just thought it would be a great opportunity to share what Ali has been through and what's been useful to her. Because I think it's so important that we acknowledge that it can take us a while to get where we want to go because there's often more work to do around ourselves and our sense of selves building our relationship with our precious essence of self, and we have to stumble in order to learn, process and grow. And that is part of the journey.
I know for me before I found the alcohol experiment and the This Naked Mind methodology I spent at least a year if not longer, doing Feb-Fast, Dry July, Sober October - and nothing sticking until I found this methodology so it's great that we share that honestly and give space for the ups and downs of life as well as the ups and downs of this journey back to self.
Hello, everybody. This is my good friend and client Ali, who I have been working with for a little while. And I wanted to invite Ali on to come and talk to you about her experience as a woman in midlife, finding that alcohol wasn't really working for her and her journey with that. And then Ali has been with me in the alcohol experiment. And so I want her to share a little bit about what her experience was in the alcohol experiment so that it's not just me talking about what it's like.
This is actually someone who's been there and has experienced it and has come out the other side as well. Ali and I now meet relatively regularly just in a more maintenance capacity as part of my Be The Lighthouse group which is all for women who are moving in the next steps with their alcohol free life. So it's very exciting that she has come with me on this journey.
Ali is a beautiful, vibrant, vivacious woman who is incredibly eloquent and has done the work in a really thoughtful way around her relationship with alcohol and what it means to her. I feel like she represents the lovely women that I work with very often. And she will be a great person for you to hear from. So Ali, without further ado, would you like to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your journey with alcohol and how you ended up finding the alcohol experiment?
ALI: Sure, thanks, Em! I'm already feeling misty in that introduction, because it's an emotional sort of journey and a varied one because of how positive and joyful it is, and especially working with you. I started drinking in my teenage years, probably very young, 13/14. Alcohol’s always been there in my social life, in, you know, family life at home with my parents. And like many of us, it just sort of crept up and up. And I started to get concerned about my drinking, I think in my 40s. And I'm 53 now. I remember doing a course with Sydney Uni, I think I was living in the bush, and it was a correspondence course on controlling alcohol. I've done some counseling and you know, on a one on one psychology capacity, I have done some group work with other programmes. So I've actually done five live alcohol experiments in the last two and a half years. I'm very proud to say, because for me, yeah, it's been you know, about building and building and building the information and the work. So I've done two with This Naked Mind with Annie Grace. And then I've done private coaching with Emma as well. So I've done three live alcohol experiments with Emma.
EMMA: Yeah, you've kind of been with me on my iterations of the alcohol experiment. Yes. The first one that we did last year was a little bit different to how we do it now. And it's been evolving, hasn't it?
ALI: Yes! And so and I have after those, in general, I've gone back to drinking. And sometimes with disappointment, but now I'm really happy for all of those and all of that, you know, I've got journals full of all of the work and all of the thoughts. And I mean, one of our friends who was coached by Emma and one of the groups, you know, she just stopped drinking completely after the first alcohol experiment. And yeah, and for me, now, the switch has flicked off.
EMMA: And I love that you tell that story, Ali. And I'm so glad that you have come on to do that. Because it is so rarely a just one off, you know, you do a programme and you're suddenly a non drinker. There's so much of a journey that so many of us have to go through in order to get to the place where we're actually comfortable with that kind of concept. It's a little bit like splitting up with a lover isn't it? And like you say, every time you come back to our colony kind of like this is, I feel like there's a reason why I need to go back. Then afterwards, you can reflect on that and go, Oh, now I understand what was happening there. And then that gives you the foundation for your next step when you're ready.
ALI: Yeah. And it's so lovely working in these different groups of women and just, you know, observing all of us. I'm sure we'll talk about this further, but you know, the similarities are just quite incredible. And that's the beauty of the work because we just relate to each other so much, but our journeys are different. Our timelines are different. And I always say to you, Em, I've been working with you for over two years, but you'll say it'll happen Ali, it'll happen, you know. And also knowing I'm not going to give up. I just wasn't gonna give up. Because, for me, what happened with the booze was anxiety. So I have a lot on my plate, I'm running a business. And I was drinking, for every reason, celebration, boredom, blah, blah, all the reasons, but anxiety was one of them. And it was causing terrible anxiety that I was then medicating with the booze. So I'm also really happy that my body and brain started to react in a very, quite drastic way. Like I would the three o'clock in the mornings, for me, were actually physical pain, you know, in my stomach, and it did become unbearable, and I'm sure it would be unbearable again, if I started to drink again, because I just know that that is now what my brain is going: NO. My body is going NO. And so I'm grateful for that pain.
EMMA: It's such an interesting thing. Because it is such a, like you say it's so you know, it's such a strong reason behind why so many of us drink. And at the same time, you know, when you're drinking, it's, it's making it all so much worse.
ALI: Much worse. I mean, my non drinking time. I just deal with things so much more calmly now. But what happened for me is it actually does feel quite different right here, right now. So that's why I'm really excited to talk as well, because I do feel like I've jumped over to that place that I've only sort of been waving at, you know, and seeing other people on that island. And I just feel like I'm just not gonna drink. Right. That's and that's such a good feeling that makes me cry. But I still had it there after the last August alcohol experiment, which is the last one I did with you. It was a beautiful month, wonderful woman, we all had a great time. And we're all holding each other. And it was a great success. And then I've had some events, some dates, too. I had something where I thought it's the end of August. Of course, I can have a few drinks, you know, so I still had a belief there that that would be a great idea. Yeah. And it really wasn't like, I think I spent like, quite a few days, trying to clamp it back to like, stopping. Yeah. And that was frightening. And I'm happy about that.
So what's happened for me, which I feel is like my personal little magic trick, which I'm still sort of very motivated by, is that I and the thing about the alcohol experiment is that we all work together on things that are coming up. That's one of the great things, you know, we've got something coming up we're nervous about. So I had my first trip overseas because I import, so I hadn't gone for three years because of COVID. So I had my first trip overseas to an exotic land, all by myself. I always use alcohol in airports, on airplanes at the end of the day to relieve stress. So I was working with the group about how I was going to do this trip with alcohol at all, I was terrified of this concept. But I knew I had to draw a line in the sand. It was the beginning of September. And I'd gone back to struggling with booze after the beautiful alcohol experiment. So I drew a line in the sand for the airport and haven't drunk since then. And had a fantastic time. So the time was so beautiful, that it's that stuff around all this work, which is you know, positive emotion, you know, how do we want to feel free, excited, all of this came to me in this Genie’s bottle. It was like a magic spell came over me in Cairo in my beautiful time without alcohol doing my business. And it was like such a positive affirmation. So yes, I think that the negative, the difficult, the rock bottoms, the hard stuff is motivating, because it doesn't feel nice. But when you have these fantastic experiences, you know, which are way better without the booze. That's just that, that's what's happened to me.
EMMA: It was such a brave thing for you to do to go and do that somehow, you know, do something like that, because travel is often a thing that's very triggering for people. Because we have so much anxiety around it. And because we're so conditioned to alcohol and traveling kind of going hand in hand. So, to take that step and do the really brave thing was, you know, very courageous and it sounds like it really paid off.
ALI: Oh, yeah. It was actually super easy.
EMMA: Probably easier, right?
ALI: Everything. I mean, everything's easier if you're not preoccupied.
EMMA: Absolutely. And if you don't mind telling the people who are listening, what it's actually like, being part of the alcohol experiment, what do you kind of get? And what's helpful? And what does it feel like?
ALI: Well, I'm sort of confident that I'm speaking on behalf of the rest of the group as well, because we would all share this all the time. It's a very beautiful space. The idea that we're all on day one, we're all tracking at the same pace together. And a lot of us come in nervous and we express that like everyone, you know, feels so safe, really, right off the bat, that's my experience anyway, is that in the three groups I've been in with you, we're all holding each other. Sometimes we refer to the experiment as a bubble, because it does feel like a bubble. And you have to obviously, we all know, we've got to launch out of the bubble on day 30. But the actual 30 Day programme is very, you feel very held. So if you want to write something, we're writing every day our thoughts in the Facebook group, and everyone's sharing. We’re watching Em every morning. So we know the topic to reflect on, we're journaling, and we meet each other in the evenings. And it's just, you know, you can't get away from it.
EMMA: Which is kind of what you need, isn't it? When you're in that sort of early stage, you definitely need that. And I know when we come to the end, everyone's a bit nervous, aren't we? It's like, what happens when we move out of that safe space? And how are we going to be, and we do have a follow on group as well, which Ali is part of, and a lot of the other people who were in that alcohol experiment with us have got gone into as well, which is just to hold that space for people as they take the next steps. And, again, because it's not a straight journey. It isn't, and, you know, we're all learning how to do something new. And that community in that, you know, having a safe place to be held in to land is so important.
ALI: I think for a lot of us what's so wonderful about it is the work that because so EM is always, you know, reiterating the the self love and the fact that it's not our fault, you know, the fact that it's our work to do but it's it is about the substance, and that we can all relate to. And that takes away our shame, because I mean, there's shame, but first, you know, about how much you've been drinking. And then once that is sort of dealt with in the content, then we feel so safe to, to really share and the more you share, the more you can relate to everybody else.
EMMA: That's exactly it, isn't it because it feels so scary, to put yourself out there and say, you know, this is me, this is how alcohol has been affecting me and, you know, the things that it's kind of made me do or, you know, made my life feel a bit like because of the way that we're indoctrinated to feel about, you know, having an issue with alcohol, there is that stigma. And the great thing about being in a community and the great thing about being in a group is, you know, you're all talking and you're all speaking the same. And you see these amazing women like Ali and the other people in the group and they're all the same as you. They're all cool. People that if you met on the street, you'd be like, Oh, that's an awesome person. I really want to get to know them. There's nothing wrong with them. They don't have to head so just like regular people like me and you it's like, everybody's, we're all the same. We're just struggling with an addictive substance. And the minute you can tell your story and show your soft belly to the rest of the group and they accept you and love you and say, you know, that's okay, me too. You feel so much better about yourself. It is a scary, vulnerable thing to do. So I think it's important that we have, you know, a nice small group where you can feel loved and have a soft place to land. When you are struggling, you know, because it's, like I said, like we said before, it's not always a straight path and things come up for us, and stresses happen and feelings happen and day to day life isn't easy.
ALI: No, and it's a very complicated relationship. It's not just for anxiety, it's not just for a good time, you know, when we, when, especially with the programme with 30 days, you know, you can focus on all the different ways that reasons and all, like, you know, because I guess the nature of the beast is that it likes to infiltrate everything likes to use your sadness and your joy. And so therefore, it's very multifaceted. So yeah, I think that's also why the programme is so successful, because, you know, we look at every aspect, and you surprise yourself with all the reasons why you're drinking, you didn't even realize you're drinking for that reason as well.
EMMA: Absolutely. And how often it can be things, you know, really, things that you would never have thought it was. You might think that you're a really extroverted person. And then you find that actually, you're drinking to make you an extroverted person. There's so many different things - you can think that your drinking helps you enjoy things, and then you find out that actually you're drinking because you don't like the things, and you're drinking in order to get yourself through the things. That's what I found. I was like, Oh, my goodness, I actually dislike most of the things that I was doing in my social life. And the only reason I was able to get through them was by drinking, but I had no idea. I thought I loved them. I thought they were all I wanted to do. It's very surprising when you start to uncover this stuff.
ALI: Yeah, absolutely. And that's what happens in your alcohol experiment. We're pausing. And we're, we are planning and anticipating and thinking about what might be coming up for us on that weekend, or going back to what happened to us last night, and really unpicking it. And so it's sort of a pause, isn't it? Like a slowdown?
EMMA: Definitely. And often it can be really difficult, you know, we ask, and I often have this with myself as well, we often ask the question “what does that make you feel like?” Or “do you know why you did that?”, and often we can't articulate it, because it's coming from our unconscious, or it's coming from our nervous system, so it's about sort of slowing down. And instead of just like you said earlier, it's about slowing down and looking into what's going on for us and, and starting to be able to put words and to put an understanding around the reasons that we might be using alcohol. And that can be tricky for people to do. You actually have to kind of focus on it, rather than just brush it out of the way or under the table, you know, and kind of pretend it's not happening. But I think if you do the work, and are able to slow down a little bit and have a look at what's going on. You can get to that place. That it sounds like you've got to Ali which is that you know, you really have made a firm commitment that that's the direction that you're going now and there’s no question in your mind.
ALI: Yeah. And I couldn't have predicted how that was going to come about. For me, it probably is because it was going to take me this much time and it was going to be that many sessions and that many different repetitions of the same material with different groups and different women and just reinforcing, reinforcing. It's happening in there. You're not always aware of it. Yes. And suddenly, or not suddenly, I'm sure it's going to be a different switch for everybody. And that's really interesting.
EMMA: That’s so interesting, because I know Ali always says change happens in an instant. It's the preparation for change that takes time. I think it's really lovely. That's exactly right. It's like it's at some point there you’re going to go in and go, Okay, this is done now. Yeah. But it's all the stuff that goes before that, that creates that instant change. It's all the, you know, the time that's that's elapsed and the things that you've done and the things that you've learned and the data points that have happened, and the growth that you've gone through, and the life experiences that you've gone through, and things like going away, and going to another country and doing it all alcohol free, and having a fantastic time. Those are the sort of neural pathways that you build over time, right?
ALI: Yeah. And look, you know, this idea of work, and, and is it easy. No, it's not easy. Is it work? I suppose it's work. But I would definitely say, if you're going to, you need to do the work, right? If you want, if you want to drink less, or stop drinking, you're gonna have to do something. And this is the easiest way to do it. That's what I would say, like your alcohol experiment, you know, that is the most pleasurable, the most lovely, and the safest way to do it. I would say, in my opinion, I want to do it again, except that I'm on another programme with you. I'm sure I will do it. I don't know, if you're gonna get away with just, you know, not looking at this stuff, and suddenly just decide you're going to stop, I would imagine that everyone kind of has to look at it. So you may as well make it a beautiful and rich sort of experience.
EMMA: That's exactly it, because it's, you know, I was listening to the guy who invented an acceptance commitment therapy, I was reading his book. And he was talking about, you know, life isn't supposed to be all rosy all the time. It's up and down. And, you know, there's that sort of the difference between the concept of the Greek word - you know, there's Hedonism, and then there's another word that means flourish. One is pleasure seeking, and the other is flourishing. And it's, you know, flourishing isn't about always being high. Flourishing is about getting into some of the deep stuff, getting into some of the tricky stuff and working your way through it. And it's by working your way through it that you get to start to flourish and I thought that was such a lovely word. There is a proper Greek word for it though! So Ali, how has your life changed? What's different for you since that switch has turned?
ALI: I feel like it's actually gone on my switch. I have a lot of balls in the air and so I'm really enjoying the fact that my response to stress is really a lot more methodical and peaceful, and I can tease things out and I can see them for what they are rather than catastrophizing. Which is a really really great thing for me and in my business life. I can see that I'm better in my job because you know, I'm just not catastrophizing, which you know, I would definitely do with the level of anxiety that drinking creates so yes, much less reactive. Much more present of course, in all my relationships. I know this one's different for everyone. But yeah, I'm around alcohol, and perfectly happy to go into pubs to go out anywhere, whether it's those if I'm not drinking, I'm just not it's not an issue. This house has wine everywhere. It's just a non-issue. So really enjoying social occasions, really enjoying driving everywhere. There's just so many different levels of freedom, freedom in your brain because you're not constantly thinking about it. You're not worrying about when you can get a drink, where you're gonna get a drink. Am I going to drink? None of that happens, and freedom to come and go - freedom to run your own show.
EMMA: Thank you, Ali. Well, if anyone was sitting on the fence about joining the experience, what would you say?
ALI: Just get in there and enjoy yourself. The only issue is it's too good! Then the end of the month comes. The end of the month comes and you've got all your sort of toolbox full of stuff. And the relationships, you know, we're still in contact with. I'm in contact with the women. I've done the programme with before. It's a super duper way to do it with curiosity, you know, see what happens - it’s an experiment.
EMMA: That's exactly right. That's exactly right. Thank you so much, my lovely, I really appreciate you coming on and speaking with me, and sharing your experience and your journey with other people. And that's just really kind of you. And testament as well to your journey with alcohol too that you're feeling comfortable and confident enough to do that. And, you know, I really appreciate you doing that. So thank you, Ali.
ALI: Thank you, Emma. I thought all it's a bit early days for me to be talking, but it's not, it's all just a journey. And you know, here I am on it right now. You know, there's no end point, it's a journey for all of us. What I recommend is not giving up. If that's something that you're interested in, just keep at it.
EMMA: Thank you, my friend.
ALI: Thank you, Emma, you've everything you've offered me.
EMMA: Thank you for being with us on this journey. I really appreciate having that privilege.
