Speaker 1 0:00
In this week's episode of midlife AF I'm going to be talking to my friend Josephine land Kuba. Joe works as a performing arts business coach. She's a public speaker. She runs workshops. She's talent manager. She's been a studio owner. She's so many different things. Joe and I really connected we met each other through Twin Towers, her Empire Builder. And we have a really interesting discussion around adverse childhood experience and early years trauma and the impact of that, so not a not a light episode, but also some time on unmasked in there as well. And an interesting conversation so Joe's always fascinating, very, very much. She's achieved a huge amount in her life, and I think it'd be really good and interesting. Listen for you all so over to myself and Jack
Speaker 2 1:16
if you're a woman in midlife, his intuition is telling you that giving booze the elbow might be the next right move. Their midlife AF is the podcast for you. Join counselor psychotherapist this naked mind and gray area drinking alcohol coach Emma Gilmore for a weekly natter about parenting quirky teens, menopause relationships and navigating this thing called midlife alcohol free. If you're feeling that life could be so much more that you're sick and tired of doing all the things for everyone else. If your intuition is waving her arms manically at you saying it could all be so much easier. We didn't have to keep drinking, come with me. Together we'll find our groove without booze.
Speaker 2 2:07
I lovingly acknowledge the boomerang people of the Kulin nation as the custodians of current Baroque. I share my admiration for the Aboriginal culture I witnessed the connection that they have for each other and the land and their community. As I swim in the waters and walk on the land, I feel the power of this place. I'm grateful for the Aboriginal peoples amazing custodianship, the power, beauty and the healing potential of this place. I wish to pay special respects to the elders of the Buena, wrong people. Their wisdom, guidance and support are exceptional and felt well beyond the Aboriginal community. I honor that this is Aboriginal land, and that it has never been ceded. I am committed to listening to the Aboriginal community and learning how I can be an active ally in their journey to justice. Hi, everyone. I will just ask Jared again hold on a second I've got the beautiful Joe who is coming to join us and we're going to talk about trauma to triumph because so many of us in this space I'm just trying to get her on let me see if I invite her so many of us have trauma ego little T trauma in our lives. And it really pack how we show up. I know you're there darling. I'm just asking you to join Why is it saying are unable to join let's try again. Just accepted you Joe. That's yours.
Speaker 3 3:55
Just decided to switch off and come back and I'm like oh damn, yeah.
Speaker 2 4:01
I knew you were that see you trying to get on it's always a bit fiddly, isn't it? Yeah. Well, welcome my lovely friend Joe and I met in her empire builder which is a program for people entrepreneurs, female entrepreneurs, right. And it's got it's really an interesting group because there's so many like minded lovely people that you meet, and I often find for myself or I kind of became an entrepreneur and had myself diagnosed as neurodiverse I really struggled with fitting in. I felt really awkward and I felt really I just always felt a bit wrong like I always said the wrong thing. I was always a bit too much. I was always too quiet when I'm supposed to be noisy too noisy when I was supposed to be, and all of the things. And then I met this bunch of women, and I'm like, oh my goodness, I found my people because very much like when you meet people who, if you're a neurodiverse person, you meet neurodiverse people, you're like, Oh, my goodness I meet my people would stick with a lot. I think a lot of entrepreneurs, how you have neurodiversity, or have trauma in their background, they go nettle tea, or are highly sensitive people, because it takes a certain vibration. And I'm gonna sound really picky. Now. I like to follow this pathway. And I met Joe and she had been Joe has been running a successful business for a long time. And she I'm quite in admiration of Joe. She did what I have wanted to do a lot earlier than I did. I was too scared to break out of corporate. And to get away from that kind of like reliable paycheck and holidays, and all that kind of stuff. Even though I was running myself ragged. Ah, Hi, this
Speaker 4 6:16
is Emma. What happened today, but anyway, I'll see you tomorrow, our interview. Just candidly, I mixed up the amas. Today, I've literally come off the back of being so sick, and the worst flu I've ever had way worse than COVID. It was horrendous. And my brain fog was real. And I mixed up my MSA. But I'm so glad I'm here and I get to see you, Emma, tomorrow. I'm so glad.
Unknown Speaker 6:41
And I'm sorry, I was a bit grumpy earlier.
Unknown Speaker 6:45
I was trying to make it all work. I totally get it.
Speaker 2 6:47
I know. And also coming from a perimenopause, or lady who's going through a bit of shit at the moment. My brain fog is all over the bloody place. And I forgetting appointments left, right and center. But if somebody forgets my
Unknown Speaker 7:07
schedule, it was just the wrong and
Speaker 2 7:14
it's all your diverse people, we don't deal with change. Well, it's. Anyway, the reason I want Joe to come on here is I've met Joe a few times. And she's just an incredible person. And Joe and I sat down and had lunch together in Melbourne inputs gray. And we had one of those conversations, which is so lovely, where you just kind of share your heart with each other. And she shared her heart with me, and it made me admire her even more. So I've given that a bit of a long, rambling introduction to Joe. But Joe, would you be kind enough to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your magic?
Speaker 4 8:00
Yeah, so hi, everyone. My name is Jace, Finland, Cuba. And I saw a piece of an artwork come out to promote today that you accidentally and I don't know if you do your own artwork or not. But it was spelt lamb bomba.
Unknown Speaker 8:15
I love we sell things very badly. And we do
Speaker 3 8:19
ombre. It's just letting you know. But she does November. It sounds like
Unknown Speaker 8:30
you have to laugh.
Speaker 4 8:33
That's all good. So yes, so I am a performing arts business coach. I've run a musical theater program for the last at with multiple clubs sites called the musical Makers Club for nearly 10 years, which is producing theatrical programs for young people. I'm a talent agent. I represent artists in film, television, theatre and commercial. But moreover, and this is how we met is that I started coaching other studio owners and other performing artists on how to create their own in house talent management services and grow their studio business. So recently, I've also moved into the speaking space very much, not just about performing arts. Yes, of course, I speak on those topics. But really, what I'm loving is talking about resilience, you know, you're overcoming challenges, you know, rising from the trenches of life and business, but life is a big part of and also Yeah, just just embracing that roaring resilience. Resilience is actually one of the key. I suppose, one of the most important things when I talk about, you know, personal attributes and things that I look for and not just myself but in others. I teach my resilience. I just think it's really important to get through life especially, you know, I've come from a bit of a hard knock background and so, resilience was really the only option. But my kids, they don't, they don't have the upbringing I have. And even though the problems may seem different, you know, they're not trying to find food, they're not, you know, trying to get fit. They have everything they need. But it's been such an important thread in my life, just being able to cope with certain situations, even within their friendship groups or anything, you know, and their little, but just having that as a backbone is such an important part of what I'm hoping to share with others. Yeah,
Speaker 2 10:36
that's absolutely brilliant. And I think you do like it comes across, straightaway, the minute you meet you, and I remember seeing you up on a stage talking and you're a wonderful speaker. Joe spoke at we went to a conference in Korea, which was one of the most amazing experiences. And she spoke and she said, she's a terrific speaker, she keeps you really engaged and really interested in what she's saying. So I highly recommend, Joe, if anyone's looking for a great speaker to come in and talk about resilience because she is really, really good. But Joe, I know that Joe and I talked a bit we've talked about alcohol. We've talked about Joe's relationship with alcohol and how that's evolved. Yes, and also about Joe's back ground and Joe, you know, go as far or as, you know, as little as far as you want to go, and what that has given you. And also what you've learned from it, and what are the things that you put in place to keep yourself well and healthy. As an adult? Oh, yeah.
Speaker 4 11:45
So look, um, you know, I was out of home from, you know, the young age of 14, sometimes it's foggy. So because I came from a home of domestic violence, sometimes the timelines are foggy. So sometimes I think I was out of home at 1514 13. Sometimes I just can't remember. And it's because that time in my life is actually foggy. Because of having to go through such a traumatic experience of, you know, leaving home at a really young age coming from an unsafe environment. And then, you know, really having to go it alone. Yes, I had older sisters, but they were kids themselves, really, I mean, we're talking about an 18 year old, do you know, like, it's not their responsibility, and they went through their own trauma. So we were all just trying to make it out in the world on our own. And there was definitely, you know, drugs and alcohol was a part of my teenage years. That was just the way it went down, I guess. Because when you're, when you're free, really to do whatever you please, as a person? Well, you're, you know, there's no consequence to the action. Yeah. So you surround yourself with people that are, you know, either not being cared for or neglected or, or just free to do whatever they want. So, you know, that's kind of how that started. You know, smoking cigarettes at a young age, I was doing all of I was drinking before I was 18, that sort of thing. With an 18. It was like, Yes, now I can party and I did I partied. And a lot of fun. Yes. But I also put myself in situations that I probably I mean, I would not wish that upon my kids. Yeah. And I am lucky that I'm here. I remember an incident that happened and again, timeline is foggy, could have been pain. You know what I was in the passenger seat of a car of a friend who didn't have a license and we were driving someone's car and she was speeding and 100 kilometers per hour and we were drinking and banged in three at 100 kilometers per hour. And her take her her lip. The person eight ended up with a permanent tear in their breast. And I was the only one that came out without a bruise. These are the sorts of things I remember even going in I got put in you know, they've sent me to hospital I remember being really scared. They were cutting my I remember I got these new jeans and they had like they were the things I've never seen James like the medicine. They had like really they were flat. They were hippie style. They had like embroidery flowers and just really cool. Yeah, and but then cutting them off me in the thing and I just remember because I was young. I wasn't Yeah, I just survived something really big. Honestly. Yeah.
Speaker 2 15:00
I love it. So yeah, no, really close
Speaker 4 15:05
calls and die from overdoses growing up in their 20s. So I've been to funerals of young people. Funnily enough, I've always saw myself as someone that didn't have an addictive personality. So people were going to do some hardcore stuff that were around me because that's how it evolves, right starts with cigarettes and alcohol, you know, that happens, then you're in your 20s, and then the starts to change, and then all sudden, it's the moral law. And then all of a sudden, it becomes well, now we just do drugs, like I'm talking about, I knew people that were on really heavy stuff. Yeah, but I didn't go down that path. I always thought it was because I didn't have an addictive personality. But now I really probably lay in hindsight, that I didn't go down that hardcore addiction path, like some of the people I knew did was I always imagined my life as something more. I knew I was smart. And I felt like, maybe there was more for me. And then if I did that, I did have a fear. I was smart. You know that. That wasn't, that wasn't the right part. That wasn't going to get me where I need to go. But it did lead eventually into my adult life where I was drinking wine at home. I think I can't when we first got married. I mean, we were drinking a bottle of wine a night. Yeah. And that was so we would say we will wine. I was like it was a joke. You know, like, oh, yeah, I'm a wine. I like it was a badge of honor. Right? Yeah. We kept doing that. But that was socially acceptable. Everyone was doing it. We were in trying to get our careers happening. We were drinking a bottle of wine at home with our pizza, eating terribly. All the things. Yeah. Then I remember it changed. And that's when I knew we'd probably gone to. And that was when we'd started, like going into whiskey. So there's
Unknown Speaker 17:16
a bit of whiskey at home.
Speaker 4 17:19
And I was having shots of whiskey with my mine. And I was okay. I feel like we've probably stepped too far. When we had kids, we still continue drinking. I obviously, I stopped during my pregnancy. That was me because that meant I knew I could live without alcohol. Yeah, where's my husband? Didn't know, you know. So I did stop for a while. But when I then I started drinking again. It was almost like a celebration. I could drink again when the kids remember.
Speaker 2 17:53
Me too. Yeah. So it was a celebration, get this thing key cheese and the one that was like,
Unknown Speaker 17:59
Give me this. Get me wrong.
Speaker 4 18:06
Funnily enough, I didn't stop drinking when I had my child kept going. And then when I had my second, that's when I started having a couple of sneaky ones while I was pregnant. I felt bad. But then I told myself it was. Yeah, yeah. And then once I had a second, that's when it was like, Yeah, I think this isn't gonna work anymore for us, because we would try. We weren't parenting to the best ability. I felt like the alcohol will trust trying to numb the busy day of parenthood and things. Like it's making it harder, because now I don't want to actually attend filed, you know. So I just see. And I also, I also felt like, my body wasn't the same as my 20s. Yeah. So when I was drinking a lot, I was starting to put on more weight. And I did, there was a direct. Like, what do you call it when something two things like they're directly linked,
Unknown Speaker 19:13
lagging? correlates correlation? Yeah, for sure. And I thought all
Speaker 4 19:17
when I drink, I make bad food choices, the food choice, I will put on weight. Then what happened? The flow on from that is I don't want to exercise the next day and continues and continues and I got to my heaviest butt and I talked about weight not because I care about weight. I felt terribly. Yeah. I wasn't me anymore. I just felt like I was in someone else's body. And then I just I so that's what that's what stopped me from the daily drink. So that's was when I went Oh, stop that it's not working for me. And I went on a health plan. I'm talking a lot sorry.
Unknown Speaker 19:57
No, you're fine. You're great.
Speaker 4 19:59
Beautiful. On a health plan, where I just reduced alcohol, blah, blah. And now I'm at a point where actually, I don't drink at home anymore. So we don't drink at home anymore. I drink when I go out, I can have a social drink and I don't binge drink. I can have a drink or two socially out of the home. And that feels okay for me that feels comfortable. It doesn't affect my work. My fitness, my racing of the kids. Yeah. All of it. Yeah. You know,
Speaker 2 20:30
it sounds like you are daily habit. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. That's, that's your relationship with our car. So that's kind of where you are at the moment, we just kind of got your like everyone's dream, this magical unicorn that everyone who has problematic drinking, which is such a huge amount of people were, like most people when they come to me, but work, like, I want to be able to just have two drinks out when I'm out socially. And that's what like everybody wants to do. But but most of us, it's very, it's very hard to do. Yes. And it's, it can actually be easier not to do it at all, than to try and do that. So I feel like you often the people who are able to do that there's very, usually very good reasons why they are able to do that. Well,
Speaker 4 21:26
I do have a secret to why I can do that. And if you'd like I do, and this is not good.
Unknown Speaker 21:33
Yeah. But yes.
Speaker 4 21:34
Place to the addiction. Right. So the addiction to Diet Coke. Now. That No.
Unknown Speaker 21:44
Diet Coke is so addictive. But
Speaker 4 21:47
it is what I will drink when I stopped drinking out. Yeah, yeah, but I drink. But what's happened with that is now Diet Coke has become my daily drink. And so now that I felt like okay, that was better than alcohol. But I mean, like as in, in monks, on webinar live as croaking, they're real. Seriously, listen to this.
Speaker 2 22:13
It's so interesting, because I had completely got rid of my diet coke habit. Recently, relatively recently, and I'm slightly ashamed of my youngest, my eldest, actually was kept drinking all those monster energy drinks. And I was trying to get them to stop because they were so out there so bad for them. And so he started drinking Coke. And I was like, Yeah, coke, still really bad. But I thought I'm not going to make it into a big drama. And then I started buying Coke, no zero. And now, I am literally trying to wean myself off. And then I was watching a show that was saying that actually caffeine in those kinds of drinks, is one of the most addictive things. So it's interesting, you say that, I'm also sharing my own
Unknown Speaker 22:59
my near coats to
Unknown Speaker 23:01
buy up organic called bugs.
Speaker 4 23:06
Below it, you know, Better the devil you know, I suppose I would, that, that dying does impress me from parents doesn't stop me from what you want to hear.
Speaker 2 23:20
But that's true. It's really interesting. And I'm really glad you said that as well. Because a lot of us look at people and we're like, you know, I hit so many of my clients heartbreaking. Being like, Why can't Why can these people do it? And I can't and I am literally like, do not believe it? Most people do you know who you see having two drinks out or going home and thinking a bottle. And it's just a big fucking lie? Yes, some people can. But it's very rare because actually, the way that alcohol works in your body, is if you drink it on a regular an applicator carrot. So if you were drinking, like once a week, and you were drinking two glasses of wine a week, and you were doing that regularly, even though it seems like a really low amount, it's still gonna be having the impact on your body, though it's going to make you want to have more. And the way that it works with your body is like you get to the two drinks and your body's just like starts craving the dopamine and the endorphins from the alcohol and tries to get rid of the anxiety causing and the die Northy. And so like the cortisol, the adrenaline, the die North being and it tries to get rid of. And the reason I'm saying that is because I really want to let people know that because one of the things people blame themselves and they think there's something wrong with them. They're like, I'm a weirdo. Everybody else can drink two drinks and I can't What's wrong with me? And it's and the truth of the matter is that they're not weirdos at all. It's like, it's just chemical, nothing wrong with. And it's it. For a lot of people who can only have two drinks. You know, there's lots of reasons why that might be, like you were saying, Joe, you've got on to the Diet Cokes, but also they could be, and that is, you know, a much better a better solution for you, right. But also, you know, there might be you might have had an alcoholic parents, and you might be really cautious about going down that route. Some people don't like to drink more than two drinks, because they really hate the feeling of being out of control. Some people have got religious reasons. So there's all kinds of reasons why people are able to do that. But I would say, the vast majority of people, it's very hard. Yeah.
Speaker 5 25:51
I mean, look, my my dad, when we were growing up, he was very much. It's weird, because when I think back, I never thought of him in alcoholic teacher, or Italian. And you don't want to do this that he did that he did. You know, when we went to weddings as kids, we would be allowed to drink. Yeah, that make it sound like it's in. It's good for you to get to get used to it and that sort of thing. So we were told that, Oh, you better have a seat so that when you're older, you know, it's such a building your tolerance. But that was normal. It wasn't like they were doing a bad thing. That
Speaker 2 26:33
was 100% How our parents were told to parents, basically, wasn't it? That was kind of like the norm, wasn't it?
Speaker 5 26:41
Yeah. It's like, also, you know, if you had sore gums and put some of brandy in your mouth? Yes. And
Speaker 2 26:50
it like our grandparents generation used to put whiskey or something like that in the baby bottles.
Speaker 5 26:58
mindset, you know, yeah, but, but he definitely didn't drink daily. I do you think that was a contributing factor, potentially, to the violent nature? Or maybe the lack of tolerance to anything? You know? It's hard to say. But thinking back, yes, there was definitely like daily alcohol in the house. You know, that was? No, I suppose. But yeah. That he was excessively drunk. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's so?
Speaker 2 27:35
Yeah. It's really interesting, isn't it? Because I would never have thought that my parents or my grandparents were problem drinkers ever. But looking back on it now, with hindsight, there was definitely a problematic alcohol use in our family. We, you know, it was very unusual for anybody in my family to have a day without alcohol. Very unusual. Yeah.
Speaker 2 28:12
It's a very interesting phenomenon. And I think, you know, one of the other things with alcohol is that, you know, when you look at the statistics of trauma and domestic violence, that they is a causality like, it's, it's, there's such a high level of CO occurrence of alcohol use, and domestic violence. So and it's one of the things that when I think New Zealand has just come out with alcohol as being the most harmful drug based on not just the impact of the person that's drinking, but also the impact on the people around them, and interest on society as a whole. Right, interesting in that
Speaker 5 28:57
in the film, I watched it again the other day, and it was just terrific. Called once were warriors, it's the new it's a New Zealand. Anyway, brilliant, so many years ago, and I rewatched it the other day, and it was fun to watch. Yes, and yeah, so definitely wasn't bad situation in my home, but you can see how it escalate really bad behavior for sure.
Speaker 2 29:23
Yeah. Yeah. And probably as well, I imagine that, you know, trauma doesn't come from like, you know, Pete perpetrators of trauma Don't you know, they have their own trauma. And often they drink because they're in pain. And, and because they've got their own stuff going on. I've know how. Sorry. Hello, I just noticed we've got a couple of more people joining us. Hey, nats
Speaker 5 29:56
Yeah, looks definitely I think you do have a bit Um, I know that my father went through his own traumas for sure. So I think that that, unfortunately can be a legacy that gets passed on. And this is a this is something that stayed with me for a long time. I mean, like I said that bottle of wine a day was just the natural norm, and nothing. It didn't feel wrong. It didn't feel like, oh, wow, okay. This just didn't work. You know? Yeah.
Speaker 2 30:32
Yeah. And I love that you were perceptive enough about your own experience to be able to realize that. Because for many of us, we don't pick up on it at all. And it feels because it's so normalized by society as well. It just feels like you know,
Unknown Speaker 30:52
just what everybody does, right?
Speaker 5 30:55
You fi, it was interesting, because it changed over time. So when you were younger, it was initially that whole drink to get drunk, right? Yes. Yeah, yeah. Cheap, the cheapest. crappiest foods you could imagine, didn't matter.
Unknown Speaker 31:11
They just keep us.
Speaker 5 31:14
And then it moves to being a bit more sophisticated. So now we're just in case our colleagues, but now when, you know, but I never saw myself as one ever. But it was affecting my life. So you know, it's walking that fine line, isn't it? of knowing when it's time to make a change? It's still to this day, I mean, you know, I like I said, I don't drink at home anymore. I just don't do. And yes, maybe I am a unicorn who can have a couple of drinks out and that fits. But for me, it's about that why I did that. I want to be present. Yes. To be available to my family. Yes. I also don't like the way it makes me feel physically. So like, as I get older, it takes a real physical toll can
Unknown Speaker 32:10
definitely.
Speaker 5 32:11
I imagine trying to keep up with it like that stupid. Yeah. Yeah. Like when it's interesting. It used to be a lot more fun. Yeah, I find it as fun anymore. And I had a lot of fun. Not gonna lie. I mean, yeah, I remember. My husband were in Queensland. This was when the kids were really little. And we had a double pram, and they were late. And it's like, this is you know, before we made a decision probably wasn't the best. Drinking daily. But at the time, we're like, Oh, my God, this is a chance to drink. Yeah.
Speaker 2 32:51
That responsibility is gone. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5 32:57
They're asleep. So we bring them to this restaurant. I'm sleeping Bezos it was we thought it was the best thing. Yeah. And we paid to test the scenario. drink after drink. It was insane. And we got obliterated. We couldn't. And so yeah, I mean, all fun and games, right? Until someone gets hurt, then the children and they will know, I've got to spend time with you and can't be on this holiday. It's like, You've ruined my holiday. That's why I want to feel like that's why I resent them for being alive. You know, it's, it's, it's, you think it's fun in the moment, but then there's always, always a consequence, but I don't want out. And, by the way, it sounds like you're out. And I had a couple of drinks and that felt good. And then I stopped and then I made sure my dad trick say,
Speaker 2 34:02
good on you. Good on you. It's so interesting, isn't it that because when you have an addiction, or when you have addictions have strong word people appeal, like
Speaker 5 34:12
an honor, feel comfortable with that. Firstly, interestingly enough, even though I would say there are times in my life that I was definitely do. Yeah.
Speaker 2 34:19
So people don't like to use it. It's right to use it because it's stigmatized, right? And it's still UPS people talking about what's actually happening, because it's got that stigma attached to it. Whereas plastic alcohol you Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 34:40
In a ditch somewhere, like vomiting.
Speaker 2 34:44
Exactly. It's so interesting, isn't it? Because I was talking to another lady from our group yesterday. And we were saying, you know, there's so much stigma attached to it and everyone's gonna associate with that, because of the way that You know, we've been almost conditioned to think that people with problematic alcohol use are these sort of weirdos who are weak and who, you know, there's their families, but they really are at the lowest of the low. Whereas almost everybody I know has problematic alcohol use, you know, literally, I don't know, many people, in fact, I probably know one person who doesn't wish they drank less than they do. And I think it's that whole thing of when I was looking into it, sort of lots of different definitions for problematic alcohol use, but it's what came up the most was when you want to when you both kind of want to do something, and you also don't want to do something at the same time. So it's like you're doing something, you don't really want to do it, but you're still doing it. It's like, yes, starts having a consequence. And I think as you get older, alcohol has a bigger consequence, because your hormones are changing. And I remember Brene Brown saying, you know, midlife is the time when all of the coping mechanisms that served you well throughout your life, stop doing so and you actually have to deal with what you're coping with. And that is the midlife journey, which I think is so correct. You know, whatever your adaptation, whatever your coping mechanism is B overworking, which is my, like, I would happily lose myself in my work 24 hours a day. And that's my way of escaping my everyday life and being you know, having to actually be present with the people who I love. I can be present with clients I can be present with.
Unknown Speaker 36:50
I know what you mean. I think that's the entrepreneur, though. I think
Speaker 2 36:55
it is. It's another adaptation, but it's the societally endorsed adaptation, because they're like, oh, yeah, no, we're being productive them we're working. Whereas, you know, and same with people who obsessively tidy with their house, you know, same thing. It's an it's another adaptation, another way of keeping ourselves safe.
Unknown Speaker 37:19
That would be brilliant. Problem. Yeah.
Speaker 2 37:23
I would just love that problem. Would love it. Why would I say that we say that we wouldn't actually love me because it can be very debilitating. It can be really debilitating. And both my mom and my grandmother had that. And, you know, it does make things difficult because it means if things are moved, or things are out of place, if things are not how they should be. You literally can't function until they're
Speaker 5 37:47
when the kid is on the highchair there and I'm not even kidding. Maybe eating. The food would drop to the floor. And the more would like swooped in and during the meal. Yeah. Whoa. And then you're like feeling worse about mom? Because you're like, I know, I meant to be sleeping in and do it. But yeah, it's just that excessive, excessive anything.
Speaker 2 38:15
Exactly. And we have, we have these societally endorsed things like, you know, if you're running marathons every day because that gives you endorphins and takes you away from yourself. That's okay. If you're working, that's okay. If you're tidying obsessively, that's okay. But if you're drinking or doing drugs or eating more than you want, then that's the problem. And you're a weak person. It's just It's just nonsense. Like everybody has their shit, right?
Speaker 5 38:44
Totally. I still struggle with food is probably a bit of an addiction. For me, I love food. And I'm not saying that lightly. I seriously have problems, told me
Speaker 2 38:56
my passion, because I've been training as an intuitive eating counselor. So I'm passionate about helping us because again, it's another thing that keeps us as women. Like we have this, you know, a bit like, Alcon in a way, like we've made some food bad, like we make alcohol bad. And then what happens to a lot of women who spent a lot of time being good, is then when they've been good for so long. They, you know, all they've been doing all the shirts, then suddenly is the thing that they want is the thing that they perceive as being naughty. So there's so many interesting things. And food like my mum is makes food good or bad, there's good or bad food. And so I've had to put in a really strong boundary with my mum. The more I've learned about intuitive eating and body acceptance to kind of and even in my my groups, I have to say to people like because everybody has their diet thing they want to come and tell everybody about and I'm like not in my group. I have to keep it a safe space for people. Yeah, whatever their journey is, because people, everybody has their, you know, their thing around food. And I think food more than anything else, probably more than alcohol even is, you know, the stigmatization of, and the fact that phobia in our society is just disgusting. And incredible, then once you become kind of like aware of it, it's just the things that people are okay with saying to other people or about other people, and the judgments that we make about other people. Just don't and that's another conversation we could
Speaker 5 40:46
think as well. And well, thinking back from when I was younger, too, so I was an obese child that came from being stressed. So in a stressful environment, a lot of neglect. So basically, what was my parents actually owned businesses in food and hospitality, cafes and bakeries, but no one to care for me. So which is, you know, in whatever, like everyone's in on it to get is to sit in the bakery. And I'd have to sit there for five hours, and or be allowed to run off and play in the local park and hear the news. But what are the kids doing a bakery that sits there for a delicious thing? Yes. But then what would happen was when I got into these terrible eating habits, and then what would happen was, then I'd be really killed in the hive. Like, department where I wasn't allowed to eat, like, I had nothing else to do.
Speaker 2 41:48
And it sounds like you're using food as a kind of love, you know, to give you the love to give you the, you know, emotional nurturing that you're not getting.
Speaker 5 41:57
I mean, I got very large, like, really big, it was definitely, I mean, for it, like I remember my family, I was in a black costuming costume at the beach. But next, and I was like, on the same playing, and they're like, Oh, you look like they're laughing. And you go back and beach trail, and stuff like that. So that carried with me. Excellent. Definitely a connection in between socially uncomfortable environments and food. And, yes, it's an environment where it's like, oh, my gosh, I have to talk to people. And I, I actually find myself, I don't know if it's possible to be an extrovert and an introvert.
Unknown Speaker 42:44
I think so
Speaker 5 42:45
I think. But then there are times where I do just want to switch off, usually in social environments, where I really don't have the energy to speak to the people. And that's when I will have what's the food, or that's when you can drink too much. That's right. I found myself in my adult situation where I drank too much, because I didn't know what else to do. Because I didn't want to talk to or I stood there acing the canopy, then I was doing something that's socially acceptable. So I didn't you know, so there's definitely a connection there. But um,
Speaker 2 43:25
100% 100% It's interesting, you say that, because my mom and I had the same conversation because she was a overweight kid, who are overweight, probably like the wrong terminology, but she was in a bigger body. And she, her mum, and dad works at run a fish and chip shop. And again, also not particularly caring for her. And so she ate to get the love. And then, when she went to her secondary school, she dieted and lost a lot of weight. And obviously, you know, people change how they are to you. And so in her brain, like we were talking, because she's very judgmental about people in bigger bodies, and she has a lot to say about it. And it was really interesting, because we had this conversation, and it, it became really apparent that her her precious little cell was trying to keep her safe by making her obsessed with, you know, putting on weight, eating food being good or bad, and because she'd been bullied as a kid. And so in order to keep her safe, it you know, that part of her needed for her to have a high alert around anything to do with food. Yeah. So it was really interesting, really interesting. I
Speaker 5 44:45
did lose it when I was in high school. And, and yes, definitely, it changed. I mean, we start talking to you next, immediately, so Is that so? Yes, definitely. And I think again, it'll everything from you know, drug alcohol abuse, abuse, whatever it is. It's definitely stems from that traumatic Lee, part of my life. But you know, look, look at me now.
Speaker 2 45:18
Tell me Tell us No. from trauma tribe, Joe, tell us how you have got yourself where you've got to and what you do to keep yourself so energized and healthy. And I know you've been sick. But that aside, how do you look after yourself?
Speaker 5 45:41
The biggest thing that I feel has gotten me through this life of horrible circumstance to feeling like I've never at that level that I want to be 100%. So I'm a high achiever. So I'm constantly growing constantly learning that care, for me has been forgiveness. Forgiveness is a key to my growth and resilience, forgiving the people around me giving myself so like, it is so crucial to have an element of openness to move forward. I truly believe without that, I couldn't have what I've achieved today. So forgiveness to me does not mean that I'm sorry. If my you know, my father was abusive, that wasn't okay. But I can forgive, because if I don't, and I'm holding on to it, and all it does is hurt me. It's not that bad. We've done situations, even if you've given us exercises by literally, you know, what am I grateful for? And we know people don't have great fondness and it's such a bad thing. But truly, it's just for me, it's really just about okay, you know, what am I grateful for? You know, I do forgiveness exercises in my head. So I talked about the people in my life, like I say, I forgive you, I love you. Thank you. That's it. I see, I see where it's come from. I know why you act to me or to others, or my kids or whatever. I know, why do you do that? I forgive you. I'm letting it. And yeah, I do that to myself. That was the hardest, giving myself because recognizing that when I was going through really bad things, or really poor decisions. I mean, I've made terrible decisions. And especially being younger, without guidance and mentorship, what it takes to add a decade to your life to figure it out is what I say when you're not being read. Parents who guide you and you lose decade of your life. You just do it in that search for what does this all mean? Okay. So I you know, why am I barely I say, I could have done this 10 years ago, why didn't I do this? Why would I have chosen that? Why didn't I do this course five years ago? That's right, because I lost it. And yeah, I gotta get over it. Because it's so getting over it. That's hard. Yeah, have to give myself because if I'm the one that gets hurt people that is the wrong, they're not sitting there mulling over it. Maybe they are, I don't know, but I can't worry about that. I've thought and the only way I can get to them is to move through this life with as much peace and gratitude and calm as I can. And that requires highly administer intentional forgiveness exercises. I literally sit there sometimes if I have a negative thought about someone who's done me wrong or hurt me, I stop and I go, I forgive you. I forgive you. Because I can't forgive them. I can't move forward. If that makes a major piece of my life, the giveness is really powerful. Yeah,
Speaker 2 49:36
I think that's so interesting that you should say that when yesterday, I have been I have had a lot of anger recently about different things. And I have been doing a lot of work on forgiveness. And I was listening to Gabor Ma Tei talking about how forgiveness isn't about you know, accepting that another person exactly what you're saying It's not about accepting that the other person, you know was was right. It's about letting yourself be free from the turmoil, that your hatred or your anger or your, the turmoil that it does to you because it eats you away. And it makes it tell it as your part is that fan but it doesn't.
Speaker 5 50:27
And that's right. And that's when you abuse yourself. That's it. And this is one of the worst feelings are all into the thought and memory of all of these chips. So how do we get we can escape the memories? So what do we do we soften them and offer them? Yeah, because otherwise I abused myself I do that we count the whole idea of frogs. I hate saying that. I was like,
Speaker 2 50:59
yeah, no, I know that. We've made it me too. Yeah.
Speaker 5 51:05
Food life where I was believing abusing myself, and all deleting terrible people.
Unknown Speaker 51:17
And going along with things that you didn't really enjoy. Because your
Speaker 5 51:21
friends horrible. Me? Yeah. Remember, in high school, I had a friend that punched me in the face. And got me black and blue. And then I was friends with NASA that it's our self worth, isn't it? Yeah. And I found myself to be beaten by someone or the NRA, because that was my class to such thing. Oh, that's okay. They forget. Sorry. So it's okay, now I guess it's okay. Okay. And that'll make me quite theist. So because of that, I'm like, like, you will not hurt me. Yeah, like, you can try. But I'm not gonna take it. I mean, I've had some scenarios happen recently, like, at the shops, I had a man behind me, because I wasn't walking fast enough off the escalator with my two little kids in tow. And he whispered behind my neck and said, you know, if you like that, like, you know, like I was, and that old job would have gone on quick to let him through. Yeah. And it's not saying don't do it, excuse me. I said to me like that, you know, if you wanted to move past, then you can respectfully you did not, you know, intimidate me Do not try and intimidate me.
Unknown Speaker 52:59
And he got really taken aback by that and said nothing. I don't think he was expecting that from
Speaker 2 53:06
me. And I when I think it's something as well, when we get a bit older, too. Like I have stopped putting up with like, shit I put up with the years, like, people being rude people being nasty people, you know, just that kind of, like you say, just sort of abusive, I will not tolerate it. I will not tolerate it anymore. And I'm quite an I know, it's probably very not the right thing to do. But I will quite happily put myself in the firing line, rather than have somebody
Speaker 5 53:45
be in those so when you have these, these traumatic experiences and violence and stuff like that, you know, it can go either way you can be you know, roaring with resilience, you can hide, okay, and there's no right. Yeah, easily resilient now, I mean, to the point where yes, I should probably calm down. But I'm just not gonna take it. I just can't do it anymore. And
Speaker 2 54:19
most important things about these journeys into kind of midlife and getting, you know, getting a little bit older is this beginning we actually begin to start valuing ourselves and we actually begin to start loving ourselves and we actually, we have to matter because we have to show our kids yeah, that we matter so that they know that they matter. You know,
Speaker 5 54:45
and I remember that whispering to you in the neck. Pretty gross behavior for my kids. What happened? I said, well, that man he was whispering to Were words into the back of my neck mate. Said and mummy wasn't going to let him do that. So Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 55:16
Yeah, absolutely. And sometimes there's a there's a place for righteous anger, right.
Speaker 5 55:23
I've had I've had to drive a motorcycle. I don't know he might I might have cut him off. I'm not even sure on the freeway. I don't even know what happened. Yeah, I'm on window and he started like getting abusing me. But then he started knocking his helmet against the glass. Oh my God. Say, trying to scam me. Eight months pregnant. Maybe once in a while I'm down the window. I don't know what
Speaker 5 55:56
pregnant, you're trying to intimidate a pregnant woman. And then he just went to like this like, like that, like signaling? You're crazy lady. And am I crazy? Yes. Your helmet against my window of a freeway like you got no idea. I am. Kenyan anymore. I
Speaker 2 56:20
always love to make out with crazy. Their favorite thing?
Speaker 5 56:26
Yeah, but like I said, you know, I would accept someone punching me in the face. Carrying the waste scare show up. It's been a long journey to get to. I'm here. And that's it. You know?
Unknown Speaker 56:44
I'm gonna take up fucking space. You know,
Speaker 5 56:46
I'm gonna suspect. And I'm not always right. I don't know if it's like, I don't know if I cut you off? I don't know, maybe I did. But whatever you're doing right now is not insane. Okay, and I think that's as well. The other measure? Yeah. The, the way we behave? Is it really in line with what's happened? Or are we exacerbating the situation? Even? You know, abusing alcohol, whatever. Same thing? Do I need to get drunk? Because this thing happened? Is that in line? Was celebrate, just confine and enjoy nature? Because I know,
Speaker 2 57:32
very interesting, isn't it? We do these things? Yeah, like we have this tie with this bad thing happened. So I'm going to show them, I'm gonna get really drunk. And actually the only person that you're hurting is yourself. Right? And it's so interesting, like that whole kind of concept. And same as celebrating, it's like, I'm gonna give myself a treat. It's like, well, you'll give me you know, some to be honest with you something, you know, there's so many better treats than alcohol for people, you know, what can you do that's going to actually nourish somebody that actually is going to fill their soul. Now, the amount of people that are still giving alcohol as gifts to people in corporate and all sorts of other places that just, it really needs to stop, because it's just, it's not appropriate anymore. It's like, you don't know what's going on.
Speaker 5 58:23
I have this thing where I do like private coaching for my clients. And I recently issued a VIP day, which is where they come with me for a day, high level strategy training, and we really dig deep into their business. It was great. And after speaking with you, I had a thought about it, because it was like champagne celebration at the end. But then they just give them the options, like what do you find, as a tick box? That doesn't assume that I drink? And it's like, Would you prefer an alcoholic celebration drink to finish or non alcoholic? Same thing, and one of them's most people selected? Yes. I would prefer not to. Wow. wouldn't have had that discussion back in Melbourne. And it was just an option. And I was like, Okay, well, I'll just provide a non alcoholic option for that particular guest. And I think that, you know, this was a high level coaching thing there. They're spending quite a bit of money for the day and I want to make sure that I look after them to the highest level as well. And that means asking that question in a catering scenario.
Speaker 2 59:42
Something includes a pivot isn't it? It's like if we ask people what their dietary requirements are, that we don't ask people whether or not they drink. Yeah, well they want so that's
Speaker 5 59:55
a new question and my Catering and I thought, actually, I added Can someone take some I would prefer non alcoholic. Thank you. And cool.
Speaker 2 1:00:07
Yes. Thanks for doing that, Joe. People like me love you for that.
Speaker 5 1:00:12
Yeah. So that just and I think that is as business like as a business owner, and I'm not sure who listens to you if it is a service or not, but even in an in a role where you may provide catering, or even, like, if you're having a party, thinking about the inclusive nature of it and providing an option, that's all we're not saying. I'm not saying I'm going to serve as
Speaker 2 1:00:37
they need that. Happy happy with other people drinking drink as much as you want. Yes, but don't exclude me.
Speaker 5 1:00:46
Nine say that the non alcoholic beverage market is going through the roof. I know um, people are
Speaker 2 1:00:58
people that drinking. It's not even just people who who don't drink. It's like people who are just preferring not to have an alcoholic drink that evening because they've got something on the next day or because they want to drive home or whatever. It's like, it's a lovely, inclusive industry. I think for that reason. Yeah.
Speaker 5 1:01:18
There you go. So because of our connection, I've started thinking more inclusively around the catering of my events and clients so
Speaker 2 1:01:32
well, me and all the alcohol free people. Say thank you so much. Listening to you, Joe, I love your tip. I love the tip on forgiveness as well, because I think that's huge, and really interesting, as well, because I think people misinterpret it don't know, they think you're meaning. Or you have to like say that what they did was okay, you're it's not about that at all. It's about about letting yourself heal.
Speaker 5 1:02:04
Correct. It's being free in your own salary
Unknown Speaker 1:02:07
to Yeah, not being fixated.
Speaker 5 1:02:11
That burden of whatever is happening is and, and sometimes specific. This is not reciprocated. That's the other part of it.
Unknown Speaker 1:02:21
It's not about the other person at all.
Unknown Speaker 1:02:25
That's right. But um, thank you for having you in.
Speaker 2 1:02:33
Thanks, everybody. It's been lovely. We've had lots of people. Joe, could you tell people were a little bit about what you do and where they can feel people can find you?
Speaker 5 1:02:41
Yeah, absolutely. So definitely follow me on Instagram. That's my social media love language. And that's at Josephine my Cuba. I'm sure it will connect or whatever. It's not LendKey what was it laying artwork is less cucumber
Speaker 5 1:03:07
everybody, but yet, so you find me on socials. You can also check out my website that states Finland cuba.com. And you can just DM me if you have any questions. I'm at performing arts business coach, talent manager, speaker and mentor. I don't just speak on the performing arts. I also speak in other areas including you know, areas of resilience and really overcoming challenges in life but also in business. So if that interests you please do reach out to my inbox and let's have a conversation. But yeah, it's been beautiful. Thank you so much. Thank you My pleasure.
Speaker 2 1:03:47
Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of midlife AF with Emma Gilmore. If you enjoyed it, please share on Instagram for your friends and tag me at Haute rising coaching. If you want to help me grow the podcast please review the episodes for me on Apple podcasts that really helps. If you would like to work further with me please go to my website www Haute rising coaching.com for my free and paid programs or email me at Emma at Hope rising coaching.com sending a massive cuddle to you and yours for me and mine and remember to keep choosing you
