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Hello and welcome to this week's episode of midlife AF where I have my fantastic friend Victoria BatStone Joining me to talk about her brand new book 1000 Wasted Sundays over to myself and Vic you you're a woman in midlife, his intuition is telling you that giving booze the elbow might be the next right move. Then midlife AF is the podcast for you. Join counselor psychotherapist this naked mind and gray area drinking alcohol coach Emma Gilmore for a weekly natter about parenting quirky teens, menopause relationships and navigating this thing called midlife alcohol free. If you're feeling that life could be so much more that you're sick and tired of doing all the things for everyone else. If your intuition is waving her arms manically as you say, it could all be so much easier if we didn't have to keep drinking. Come with me. Together we'll find our groove without booze.
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I lovingly acknowledge the boomerang people of the Kulin nation as a custodians of current Baroque. I share my admiration for the Aboriginal culture I witnessed the connection that they have for each other and the land and their community. As I swim in the waters and walk on the land, I feel the power of this place. I'm grateful for the Aboriginal people's amazing custodianship, the power, beauty and the healing potential of this place. I wish to pay special respects to the elders of the Buena, wrong people. Their wisdom, guidance and support are exceptional, and felt well beyond the Aboriginal community. I honor that this is Aboriginal land, and that it has never been ceded. I am committed to listening to the Aboriginal community, and learning how I can be an active ally in their journey to justice. How's
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it How are you?
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I'm really good. I've got a what
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a beautiful book. I wonder what incredible genius beautiful human being right that wonderful
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wrote this book and a friend of mine. And I thought it would be a pretty good idea to bring him on and have a chat about it. Because it's so wonderful. Yeah, it's a great cover. I love the brightness of it. It's good. The colors are awesome. You don't get
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these things. And they just show you the final one. And I was like, Oh, actually, I love it. I was really worried. But it really stood out on the shelves. It's great. I
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love it. And I love the title. So good. 1000 were arrested Sunday by Vittorio Vanstone. And I love this as well. It's like a warm hug with a dose of humor. And no judgement. Yeah. It's so important, isn't it? And I was I was it's funny enough. I was just talking to Vic quick, super quick conversation with Vic before we came on. And we're just talking about and I was saying to her that I hadn't finished the whole book. But what I've read is amazing. I've only read about half of it because I was finishing my studying. But I can't wait to read the rest of it. Because everything in there is so like I'm like, Oh yes, I get it. Like especially when you enjoy like in the when you're learning about. You go to the kids class. What? Were you in England? Or were you in Australia? When you? Yeah,
3:41
I was in Sydney there? Yeah, it flicks between in all the red flag moments in my life and becoming a parent and then the two stories will join at some point. Yeah, the Epi Center of the book, I guess where everything starts to go wrong and things then, right. I guess that's what happens generally, when you give up drinking, it has point of no return, which is kind of how books work as well. So actually, any sober story does work really well. Well in the book realm because of lead up to the catastrophe isn't there almost.
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It's the hero's journey. Like I
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was just saying this morning, I was on a podcast and somebody said to me, Oh, the real hero of this this this story is your husband John. I was like, surely you're gonna give me this one. I was the hero of this book. Got to be the guy right? That's not letting him have that. No way.
4:49
is wonderful. And as I as I was saying, I think for me, the things that always I love about you and the way that you talk is you're so relatable and useful. but things that feel for me like, oh, yeah, no, I was there as well. Even when you're talking about, you know, your first kind of like attempts at masturbation and stuff looks like we're all trying to do these things trying to grow up so quickly, and we don't really know what we're doing or why we're doing it, but we're just doing it because everyone else is doing it. And it's just like, it's, it's, like so much in this journey, like this whole thing of just being seen for who you are and validated and that you were okay. You know, I think it's good to go
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out and write it all down. Because when I sat to write that book, The reason it's so brutally honest, is because I never ever imagined in a million years that anyone would ever read it. So it changes how you write. Because I got there. It was like a diary, I started writing on the day I gave up drinking. And I felt like the only person that had ever stopped a mid range, socially acceptable binge drinking habit that anyone else would have ever written it down because it felt less than at that point, it felt like it was kind of weak compared to the drama of an extreme drinker. So I really didn't have a place back then. So I just myself, yeah, and I never imagined that anyone would ever pick it up and hold it in front of me like you have today. So that means I'm included. So full stories there is it means included the really honest parts of life like those first, sexual experiences where I used alcohol to sort of numb out the awkwardness of, you know, whacking off a boy in the bandstand in Warby Parker and ready, which is probably no, because you left I, I spent a lot of my time numbing out situations that I thought I had to do because it was part of the teenage rebellion, or because it was part of drinking culture, or Ledet culture or travel culture, or mommy wine culture, I seem to immerse myself throughout my life, which is we all do, because every culture was heavy boozing, so it's almost possible to avoid, from a very young age, it was coming at me, booze was coming at me, and it would have been impossible for me to avoid, and I didn't really actually have a choice.
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Now, and it's like so many things in art, particularly in our generation. And I'm putting you in the same generation as me, but I think you're a little bit younger. Yeah,
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I think we unfortunately, day younger, you can be in the same bracket. I'll allow it Oh. It's not much off, I'll tell you.
7:39
There was, I was just talking to Victor about this beforehand is sort of like in our generation boundaries, and saying no to things. We just weren't taught any of this stuff. It wasn't modeled to us. It was not. We were lit, to be shown alcohol as a way to go through everything to get through everything. And then we were also kind of told that we had to do everything.
8:10
Yeah. I mean, I was never shown another way, I was never shown as alcohol as being anything other than fun, or something, do or join in, I was never, there was never an opportunity for me to not drink, it was actually never a possibility. So, of course, I didn't have any boundaries that I didn't have any sort of emotional. I don't know. I didn't have any emotional education, I don't think went along with whatever everyone was doing, because that's what I was absorbing from a very young age. I never, ever questioned anything. And I thought, well, if everyone else is snogging boys and getting off with boys, well, then that's what I need to do. It never came into the equation that perhaps that wasn't right. Therefore, I just kept going and going and going and kept indulging in, you know, recreational drugs and alcohol and promiscuity. Because no one ever told me that that wasn't okay. I just presumed everybody does it. Everyone seems to be doing it. So therefore, I'm going to try and join in. Yeah.
9:14
And there's just sort of, I think I speak for most women who I know who have struggled with alcohol in some way. There's this sort of, we all tend to think we're comedians that we can fit in anywhere that we have this ability to mask and change and be whoever we're required to be at any given time. And I think that fits in with what you were saying. And I know for me, there's stuff when I've listened to you talk in the past, with Danny and with various other people on podcast talking about, you know, there's wake up moments that we have throughout our younger life, where we wake up and realize that we have to be a certain way in order for us to be acceptable
10:00
And I definitely did that all the time. And I also think that alcohol became so ingrained in me and so, so much my identity and persona, that why would I have looked beyond it, there was never an opportunity to look outside of myself because it was just who I was. So why would I change who I am and felt almost impossible. I never realized, in many years that humans are capable of evolving, I didn't know that in one lifetime, you could become someone else or three people, or whoever you want to be. I thought, I'm a party girl, this is who I am. And I want to be, and that is for the benefit of others, I want to make other people happy. When I go into a room, I'm going to be the one with the drugs, the best dance moves, and I'm going to later and I'm going to be the last man standing, because that's what people expect from me. And that's who I am. So really, my donor was based around the needs of other people, I had no worries. So therefore, I acted in ways that other people wanted me to act to make them happy. And somewhere along the line, I forgot that I mattered. I was so used to abandoning my body and giving myself away, which was detrimental to my own health, that I forgot completely who I was.
11:15
I miss you. And I would say that's exactly my experience is. And the greatest thing people talk about all these other reasons for stopping drinking, you know, I'm going to lose weight, I'm going to be more productive, I'm going to be but whatever my biggest gift was finding out that human being who I pushed away when I was very, very, yeah. And bringing them back out into the, into the light. You know, yeah, sorry, go on.
11:44
That saying an AAA I didn't go to AAA. But I know there's that saying that, you know, you sort of stunted when you start drinking, you reach a certain age, 1314 years old, you discover alcohol. And then afterwards, when you give up, you are still that 13 year old girl. And that for me, rang very true. I was emotionally immature for all of my life for 26 years, because I wasn't able to evolve because my brain wasn't working well enough, because it was always sort of pickled with booze. And it wasn't up drinking that I was able to see very clearly, once the ethanol had sort of soaked off my skin where I was going wrong. And that's the problem is when you continue to drink is that your brain is so pickled that you can't see your problems. You can't look inwards. You just drink and keep drinking and then you're hungover and then you've got anxiety, and it's just this sort of continual cycle. Even with binge drinking. I'm not talking about Oh, yeah. About a distant consumption of booze throughout long periods of my life, and didn't give me any windows of opportunity to look myself. And it was just this current kind of chaotic tumbleweeds rolling through life, hoping for the best and getting away with it and not dying. Luckily, I think many many time I could have died. Very, I was very close to putting myself at risk most weekend. Yeah, I did. Lots and lots of stupid things. And like, I never pause the show. Do you know I mean, I was them. When is this all right? Yeah, yeah. Crazy.
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Hello, lots of lovely people. People coming visiting us from UK and miss. Lovely, beautiful. Thank you for coming and joining Vic and I talking about her book 1000 Wasted Sunday's of Asia, unfortunately, people all over the world. Is it
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available all over the world? Yeah, I only got a New Zealand and Australia book deal. But go on to Pantera press, you can pay the international shipping, and you can get it there. So I'm trying to get a book deal. Separate book deal for America and the USA. Hopefully, that will work out. Yeah.
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So people can order it. Yes. From here.
14:02
Do you have to order it from here at the moment? Yeah. It's a lot of this stuff. I didn't know I just thought books went out everywhere. And it's interesting learning curve. I'm just kind of learning on the go, which has been actually really fascinating part of it. I never, of course, I never imagined my book, writing it. Finishing it getting a publishing deal of these new experiences is really fascinating to go through. And this is one is like learning where does it go? Who buys it? Where do you get money from who gets paid? It's all of that stuff. It's really interesting.
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I hear you, thank you, Lorna. No one is just saying it's breaking the cycle, which is so hard and yes. Have I not died? Oh my goodness, I know right? Ahead of me, I need to break the cycle and cannot wait to read the book. Well, I highly encourage you to read the book because it's absolutely fabulous. And I am loving every second thick because it's got fixed, hilarious and very down to earth. very truthful stuff. resend it. You both laughing fire at the same time. That's what I love about it. It's very touching.
15:07
There are some really sounds funny that, in fact, in therapy, when I went over my life, which is what you do in therapy, genuinely dig up those tangley roots from the past and take them was that always brushed everything under the carpet and in therapy, I learned to kind of look at my life and take out the bits that I liked and leave behind the ones that I didn't. And it was such an interesting process. And in that I learned that I had made so many mistakes. And I remember the therapist saying to me, it's sad, Vic, and ask God really, you know, I thought, you know, real trauma was sad, and I didn't be aware then that trauma is kind of relative and like, matter, the level of trauma, it's just that whatever affects you and makes you sad, is worthy of looking into, and some feel guilty that my trauma wasn't as bad as other people. Yeah. And that made me undeserving of healing or something. And it was only therapy that I thought, well, actually, yeah, it was sad. And I did feel hurt. And some things did happen that affected me and made me want to drink more and perhaps, pushed me into a binge drinking habit, because I didn't realize that before. So that's something that's been really interesting to learn along the way is that trauma doesn't have to be as bad as you imagine. And unfortunately, sometimes, and that's, that's worthy of healing as well. But also it can be an amalgamation of a lot of things. Is that a word?
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Or micro thing? Yes, it is.
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A smorgasbord of weird shit that happens to you the big ball of emotion that sits on your chest, which makes you lean in for that extra glass of wine, I think. Yeah,
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absolutely. It's been so fascinating for me just finishing the Gabor Ma Tei training course. And his piece is that literally, trauma is the human condition. It's like don't expect it to be different. This is where we are like the world is such that we can never, because we don't live in tribal communities where we've got people picking babies up all the time, we are literally up, parents cannot 100% be there to validate our needs at all times when they're quiet. And so it's almost like we can't even go through this life without feeling that, you know, it's never gonna not happen, that little micro aggressions happen throughout our lives. And most of us who drink are incredibly sensitive people. We were born sensitive people, things affect us deeply. And these little micro aggressions happen during our life and we make a problem. And then we rest of our life trying to fix Yeah,
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I was someone about this yesterday on our song as a Hamish on our podcast about this about how you go through life. Like I was a very confident child. And from of happy family, I was really confident until I started drinking, actually. And then I sort of lost myself there. And then from that, I call them taps on the shoulder. It's like I was good enough. And then lots of little taps on the shoulder that may turn around and go. Oh, I thought I was good enough. But you're telling me I'm not not? Yeah, really minor things like even just watching somebody on a TV show and going, oh, what? Well, maybe I need to look like that if she's popular. Just little taps on the shoulder that sort of, it's sort of like, you know, tapping you down a little bit going, you're not good enough, you're not good enough. And those over time, that's what I mean by this whole kind of ball of emotions get dealt with, you end up going. Alright, I thought I was alright. When I was a teenager. I'm starting to understand with all this shame and remorse on top of that from overdrinking that perhaps I'm not as good as I thought I was. And that's really sad, actually. And it took me a long time to, to get over that and to build my rebuild myself by laying that which was therapy for me and going okay, now I need to rebuild myself from the person that I was, and get rid of those taps on the shoulder and realize that they're nothing to do with me actually. They're just other influences throughout my life that made me feel a bit shit.
19:23
Yeah, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. And then we spend our whole life performing this person that just kind of being made up by all of those little micro aggressions that happen to us. And it's only when you stop drinking, that you get the opportunity to stand that.
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Yeah. 100% Yeah, yeah. When you stop drinking, you seem to have this clarity. Suddenly, it doesn't happen straight away. I must say. I'm funny that I remember going on Danny cars podcast when I was probably only 18 months sober. I'd kept it a secret my sobriety until I started writing Oh, and then I was all over it, obviously. But then she said to me, oh, have you gone into the journey of the self yet? And I was like, No, I've given up drinking. Like, I couldn't really understand what she was saying. And she was like, I'm really excited for you. I was like, What do you mean? You don't know what's going to happen, but I'm really
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news anyway. And that is exactly what happens when you get sober is that you get end up going on this huge sort of journey of the self, and you start to try and like yourself, and that confidence starts to come back. And the first few times of socializing are hard, but it does get easier. And it's kind of this whole stepping stone of life starts to open up to you. And it's quite hard to step on the first stones. But by a couple of years in, you're sort of leaping and bounding forward. And that's what's been the best thing about sobriety for me is the longevity of it. And how, because people often say to me, Oh, what about if I have one or two? And is this forever? What do you recommend, and I'm for me, the longer you are sober, the better it gets, and the more confident you become. And the more you start to be kind to yourself and like yourself, and that is really a long term stress. For some people, that might seem like a prison sentence. But for me, it's actually being let out of prison.
21:31
It's the thing. It's the it's the thing, it's actually the joy of the whole thing. For me, it's like the ups and downs, the lows and the highs, learning how to feel for me, because I didn't know how to feel like I literally didn't feel a thing. If someone has said to me how you've been so be like, I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm sorry. I didn't know what you make. Yeah, because
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it because it because feelings were represented by booze, it's like, I'm going to commit a I'm going to feel sad, I'm going to feel happy. And like, what's up this up, and sobriety is about learning what life is without a top up my dad was there with the top I've always reminds me like with topping up our lives with topping up our lives. gonna feel more, we're gonna feel happier. Actually. Fake high at the end of the day. And living without a fake highs is really what true living is, I think. It sounds like oh, yeah, just because you're sober, like Uber, but actually not topping up. And often I have this conversation about drugs with people as well about, you know, pills or Xanax, or, like hallucinogenics and smoking weed and stuff. But gee, that's you still going to another place main thing is still self out of yourself to experience a top up again, it has to be about 100% sobriety and 100% longevity with it if you can, because that is going to always give you the best results.
23:00
Yeah. And the thing is, it's not any, like, it's not an easy journey, right? Because and I'm not saying that, like, it's hard, because actually, I think it feels like it's gonna be harder than it actually is. In reality, once you once everything kind of clicks into place, the fear of what it might be like, it's more terrifying than reality of it. But sometimes, in order to because I feel like for me, it's a journey of authenticity and the return to self like real self. And I think my experience with that is that sometimes it's not, it doesn't feel safe for us, to be honest. And that's actually like, the reality of the situation. Yeah. And so I always say, to people, you know, stay drinking for as long as you need to stay drinking, until you feel safe enough to make the next move, because it was a bit like what you were saying before, you have to matter the most in order for this to actually work. And it's really difficult to matter the most, when, by having honest conversations with your loved ones, you potentially risk their displeasure. And if you've come from a place where keeping everybody safe and keeping ever making everybody else, my primary priority, which is what we were all brought up to behave like everyone else was more important than that. That's a really, really scary concept.
24:27
Yeah, I had a conversation recently, the lovely Jean McCarthy came to visit me from the bubble hour. And she talks about this thing, which I have never even thought of, and it's like total genius. I'm passing it on. Okay, great. I love it. He has this thing called sobriety capital. Okay. So what that is, is that when you give up drinking, whether the capital comes from you, or both probably is that you have a support network, you have something that's going to be there to support you whether it's your Of course, like your amazing sobriety course, or AAA or your husband or a friend, or the house that you live in, or just knowing that this is the right thing for you caught up sobriety capital. And they are what is going to mean that you have a long and successful sobriety. If you say this without any tools whatsoever, without podcasts, and without books, and without stuff that you have to walk the walk and talk, the talk of the things are important, and they are your capital. And part of it is what you're saying, it's you having had enough of alcohol, and you being your own sobriety capital and standing up for yourself and saying, right, I'm gonna stand up for my body right now. And my men, yeah, and I'm gonna have my own back and do this for me and start this journey for me. And hopefully, you'll have some of that other stuff going on as well. And I think it's really important if you can have, it's almost like, what's it called, like on the outside of a building that holds up the building? Like as like a scaffolding, a part of that might be coming from you. And part of it might be from outside sources. But I think having sobriety capital, when you step into this path is going to be the way to make sure it works for you. Definitely, I
26:18
totally agree with you. I think I don't know about you. But before I before I eventually stop, I had started I was in having a big like, oh my god, change life changed everything moment because I lost my job. Or I've had walked away from my job. And I was in a legal battle about it. And everything felt like shit. Like, my whole identity has gone. I was like, What the fuck am I going to do now? And, and this was before I stopped drinking, but I was still I was playing around with stopping drinking. And I started doing like, I don't do this anymore. But this was at the time I was what I did. I did hot yoga, but not in not in the hot yoga studio.
27:04
But at home. Yeah, right. That's probably a good idea.
27:08
I did a little bit of meditation, and I started learning little bits of meditation. And I did some other bits and bobs as well. I did attend some training courses, I decided I was going to become a counselor psychotherapist. And, and then I stopped drinking. But I think having some of those little things, starting some of those little things, even when you're not ready to stop yet. Yeah, can be quite helpful, can't it? What things did you What were your sort of little things that you started to do practices that you started? Well, they were
27:40
really little thing that was like, you know, therapy was the one that that and by the time I decided to never drink again, was the end of that. It was such a relief, that I almost didn't need those things. Because it was like, I had the support of my husband, it felt very private, my not drinking, I didn't tell me. Because first time ever, I didn't want to blurt stuff out and make a joke out of it was. And I was so used to making a joke out of everything. I just felt like, this isn't funny. This is and my kids. And I didn't tell anyone and I went out for 18 months, and I held on to a beer. And I didn't tell anyone. I just didn't take a sip of it all night. So I just didn't want to talk about it. But I think in that period, I was able to gain all of the tools that I needed. I started writing which of course was my therapy for myself like that. And that was the little thing was like seeing my story in black and white and going Gosh, that person from my past sounds like a total maniac. I definitely see her again. But what to do to not be her again. It's just putting things in line like hobbies, like simple things like getting up early and all of the things that will sober people bang on about the 100% true like I've embraced the boring, I guess and enjoy simple things in life and those little things. The small joys, I don't have those euphoric highs anymore, you know, not off my tips in a nightclub. For speaker, I have to accept that my life isn't this wiggle anymore. It's this content line, which means I don't get the euphoric highs. And I don't get those anxiety ridden lows. I live on this kind of level, which is enough for me to feel happy. And I think that's important. Like people say Aren't you bored? It's so boring for me is like having peace in my life. It's like exactly right, with all the good things that are real and and close to me and are important. Whereas when I was drinking it was just like screaming laughing like kind of maniac or behavior or lying in bed with my finger on my pulse feeling like I was gonna die. That's the difference they were wearing To the medium, there has to be in the middle. That's where I try and live my life.
30:03
The boredom is such an interesting conversation because there's so much to be said about, you know, feeling bored. As a trauma response. Yeah, we find boredom is terrifying. Yeah, when we're used to a life filled with adrenaline chaos, right? Boredom is really, really scary. And eventually, when you do what you've done, and when you, you know, start working through this stuff, boredom becomes peace and contentment. It's quite a different, different kettle of fish. But everyone always thinks oh, it's gonna be so boring. I'm what am I going to do with these vast amounts of time, that's I hear people talk about a lot when we're gonna do with vast amounts of time. And but you have to be with ourselves.
30:50
For some of it, but I do think it's a really good idea to, I think some of that sobriety capital would be to, before you go sober, is to have a plan of, of what are some things you could do what you enjoy doing as a child, and that you could read? Like, could you join, I joined a pottery class, I love to do me, like I love doing, being I love walking and all these other things that I thought wild, find boring, but actually, I just find them really cozy. And, you know, I'm not scared anymore. Like drinking is scary, isn't it? It's so scary.
31:26
It's scary. And I think the really terrifying thing about it is that when we're in the thick of it, it feels scarier to be without it, than to be in it. Yeah. And imagine
31:41
how risky the behaviors were like to never question that. And now to look back, and just like, who is that person that didn't care about themselves and put them selves in those non consensual situations? You know, just horrible stuff, like really dangerous stuff. Like, I couldn't imagine doing that to myself again, funnily enough, so I'm in therapy this week, I know we've got to go. But some therapy, I say, Oh, I always have a fear of, of having anxiety again, I have going back to that girl who was anxious with a hangover. And she said to me, why would you, you have done all of the work to enable you to not be anxious, and still have that fear of, there's actually no way I could have an anxiety attack because I am not that person anymore. And sometimes it takes a moment for me to sit and realize, or am I someone with anxiety? I'm like, No, you were someone with anxiety. And now you're not because you've done everything that you need to do to not have it anymore. And that was a good realization, because I think sometimes we still get scared of flopping back into who we were like, it's kind of a fear that hangs around like, could that happen? It is quite scary.
32:53
Is it? Is it really a lovely part of this journey? When you get to the point where you're like, actually, you know what, that's not gonna happen. No. Wild horses to drag me backwards, have a drink about some of those have to be like, I'm going to shoot your children that I've taken it too far. Of course.
33:14
That wouldn't happen.
33:17
But it would be like that, and I'd be like, Okay, then. Alright. Yeah. But otherwise, I'd be like, Why would I do that? And that question that you just asked, Why would I? It's like, it's such a fundamental question. Like, why would I do that? And the answer that is the information is such great data, such great information. You're amazing. I think your book is fabulous. Thank you. You're a wonderful human being I love everything you do and very much in admiration of UVic
33:49
Oh, You're sweet. You don't need to say that. That stuff. That's a bit awkward.
33:55
Awkward you're like oh my being so nice to me. What? What she are nothing is the answer. This book is one wonderful go by this beautiful book from this amazing human being. Thank you very much for coming and sharing your precious stuff in my space.
34:14
Thank you my pre flight I hope you enjoy the rest of the book.
34:18
I will enjoy it I'm gonna read it in the bath tonight. I'm so looking forward to it. I hope that's Sorry, what did you see?
34:28
I was pissed.
34:31
Alright, all right, then I would never judge you darling because anything that you say always been there myself to you treasure I really appreciate not not love Kelly's asking if the books available in the US. It's not available in the US, but you can order it from
34:48
where it's Panday. Order it tear a press. I'll put a link under this.
34:53
Yeah
35:01
Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of midlife AF with Emma Gilmore. If you enjoyed it please share on Instagram for your friends and tag me at home rising coaching. If you want to help me grow the podcast please review the episodes for me on Apple podcast that really helps. If you would like to work further with me please go to my website www Haute rising coaching.com for my free and paid programs or email me at Emma at Hope rising coaching.com sending a massive cuddle to you and yours for me and mine and remember to keep choosing you
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
