0:00
Hello, everybody. So good to see you. Again, I've literally just finished a live let me have a quick sip of my tea. And I will invite the wonderful Amanda from addiction makes three, see if she's available to join us. There we are. Let's see if she's done
0:31
that's been really nice to be with you. I really enjoyed having that conversation about happiness. Yeah. Hey, here's Amanda. Hi, man. I knew him very well.
0:44
How are you? Good. Thank
0:46
you. That was my weird hand wave. I
0:51
love a good hand wave.
0:56
How are you? Thank you so much for joining.
0:58
Thank you for having me. I'm really looking forward to it.
1:04
So I've only just met Amanda we got introduced kind of through a friend. And I had been in I had been recommending Amanda's work to, I often get calls from people who are looking at, or help with experiences of partners or spouses who are struggling with addiction. And often, I've been looking at Amanda's work for a while. So I was really aware of her. And she was one of the places that I would refer people to without, you know, just by looking at her social media posts and everything knowing that she was in line with the way that I work with people. But now I've had the wonderful joy of meeting. As Tony said, we were like, oh, let's come on do a live and record a podcast. Because I think it's such an important subject and and something that doesn't get talked about very much and something that's desperately needed. So I'm going to hand over to you, Amanda, would you be kind enough to tell us a little bit about yourself, your backstory, and then we can just kind of go from there that cool.
2:13
Yeah, wonderful. I would love to. And thank you again for having me. And as a really important conversation to have so happy to talk about it. And you know, hopefully people here feel seen understood. So a bit about me the elevator pitch. I am a former corporate accountant. So we've both got that former corporate shared experience. And I did the uni accounting path and did all of the accounting work. I lived in London for eight years. And that was great. And I moved to Australia, in Sydney, I'm obviously from New Zealand, and moved to Sydney, Australia in 2012, I met a lovely man. And we did all the things and marriage and babies and houses and all that. And along the way there. It was great. And there were a few niggly things that I just couldn't quite put my finger on some behaviors that didn't quite add up. And things just I couldn't put my finger on it. And things were getting a bit tricky. They're getting a bit hard. And I just noticed, I was holding my breath a lot. I was just not knowing what was going on or felt a bit up in the year. And then one little person came along, a second little person came along, and that phase of life is very stressful. And it has begun it's a lot. And then underlying that as well. I discovered that my loved one did have a struggle with some problematic behaviors, which was just the undoing. And so then it was okay, there's a problem and no, there's no problem. The problem was me problem was no problem. And you know, it was just a complete roller coaster. And slowly but surely, my situation deteriorated in terms of my own well being my own health. And then when you're in a spousal relationship with someone who has a problematic behavior or a substance struggle, life gets hard, it gets confusing, it is chaos and his crisis and things invariably deteriorate. And our situation was deteriorating, his situation was deteriorating, my personal well being was deteriorating, deteriorating, and with no support. So it's like about this briefly with the shame and the stigma. Once you realize this is what's going on in your home or with your family, in our culture and our society, it's not safe, really to put your hand up and say, this is going on for us, we need help. I don't know what to do, because there's all the judgment, the stigma, the shame. So, behind closed doors, we've tried to navigate it ourselves and me and to people who are just a bit not great, try navigate something that was really hard and really complicated, a really complex, surprise, surprise, it did not go well. And on and off the roller coaster we got with good times not so great times a bit of help, not so great help, and just messy. And so that happened. And then eventually, I started to piece together my own support, only through wanting to do better for my loved one. So at that point, I did not realize what a dire situation my own life was in, and that I actually did help myself. So in the pursuit of wanting to do better for them and wanting to help them and support them, I got some help for myself. And that was kind of the beginning of my own work. And then fast forward a few more years, I'd managed to piece together some things and I thought this isn't good enough. You know, this is not good enough. We're not giving people and this impacts so many people, as we spoke about yesterday, like millions of people, millions and millions of people are sitting here, and this exact same seat, struggling in silence, not knowing what to do, they're on their knees. It's confusing, it's chaotic, it can be impacted in your own physical mental well being. And we're just not doing enough for the families and spouses. So I thought this isn't okay. And where I got to about two and a half, three years ago, I thought I'm gonna go and do training and put something together myself and make it better. So that's where I got to now. I support families and spouses, it gives them the total strategies to get back to living their own great life, to be in a better spot to influence and support their loved one and the healthy way that is good for everybody. Yeah.
7:16
Yeah. Well, I'm so it's such a wonderful thing you do, because it's interesting. I often often get questions from people who are spouses of people with addiction. But also I see and listen to the other side of people who are struggling with alcohol or another behavior. That's, that's a coping mechanism that is causing them and their families harm. And, you know, sometimes the, it's so difficult because the behaviors of the families can be really, really hard for the for the people having the it's such a nuanced situation. And we get told so many different things are the right thing to do. And it's really, it is really complex. And I think having someone like you with lived experience as well, because you're right, I think when the more people I talk to you about this, the more it seems that you start off in a situation where it's all about the other person you'd have,
8:23
which makes sense about that. Yeah. Yeah. And that makes sense, right? Because this the behavior of the other person is the person who's in the thick of the struggle was the substance or the behavior? That's loud. Yeah. It's like, when you have a toddler and a newborn, when you've actually got two kids, there's, the newborn just has to sit in the corner. And just, oh, I've actually got two children, like the toddler is loud, the toddler demands your attention, right? So it's the same with something that is tricky. It has led to problematic behavior of the person that's got the that's drinking and not great way, or there's drugs or problematic behavior, that lad, that is, you know, like this. And initially, you are under the thought that a story you tell yourself, if I just help them, if they just stop doing this thing, and they can get better than life will be good. Yeah, that's the story. We tell ourselves as the spouse as the family, and we cling on to that destination of sobriety. Usually abstinence at this point, we haven't really learned about harm reduction or whatever the other things are. But at that point, it's like sobriety, abstinence, not doing the thing. We've just have to get there. You know, it's like a destination if we can just get there and that's the A complete consumption. And I would say addiction, that is the addiction of the loved ones, the families or spouses is fix that. make that better. And that equal, life is good. That equals everything is okay. And it makes sense why we believe that because we don't know, kind of the reality at that point. And that is not the case. Absolutely.
10:26
It's really interesting because I was just literally doing a live talking about the idea of happiness. Because I've just been working in my group, and we were talking about, you know, this idea that when you stop drinking, that you will be happy. And people get disappointed, they stop drinking, and they find that they're still miserable. Or why am I doing this, then? This
10:50
is not what I signed up for. And that's the same, you know, like the I to deal with that. And help clients work through that. And I try and manage expectations. And I, and I'm saying this kindly. Life does not magically get better. When someone and stops doing something. Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't. That's if you are and we are here, right? We are destination happiness. We're destination sobriety, we're destination abstinence, and then you get there. It's like, Ah, it's still not great. Yeah. And for the families and spouses here. Who, having that thought, which completely is understandable, you're putting the key to your happiness. And it's like, not even that happiness is the goal, but your destination happiness, and you're putting that in the pocket of someone else doing or not doing something, which is completely out of your control. You're giving that autonomy of your life, you're giving away your age, you give away your agency, you make it can get depending if this than that. Yeah. And was anybody happiness is an inside job?
12:13
Yeah, that's right. And, and also, you know, the, the nuances of life, you know, happening, you know, being happy and sad. Yeah. That is, that is the experience of living in the world. Right. And
12:26
that's the end, right? It's the end. And often, I think, here is our addiction and our problematic behaviors. And we focus on the extremes. Yeah, you know, yeah, happy, sad. Good, bad. So we're very black and white. So we're very like this or that, when in fact, life is very much mostly in the mundane, gray middle. Yeah, mostly, and we want mundane, we want just boring, you know, like you have been through probably a new speak to this, I have no idea how much you've been through your own problematic drinking behavior or medicine, you know, drugs prescription otherwise. And as a family member, you want boring, you want mundane, quiet, peaceful with little sprinkles of the joy and the goodness, but mainly, let's just live here.
13:29
And I loved what you were just saying as well about that sort of it becomes almost an addictive thing in itself, doesn't it the pursuit of the goal, you know, that death, donation becomes quite addictive. And I think that is trauma response to a certain extent, as well. It's like, we're gonna do everything that we can to kind of try and get to this place, because then it's gonna be okay. And then nine times out of 10 It isn't but also, like you say, it's not within our control, at
13:59
least, what you just said there is 100% true, we will do everything we can, even if it means betrayal in ourselves, but you know, abandoning our values, abandoning our health, finances,
14:19
is
14:22
it's we will do everything. Truly, and people here and it is completely makes sense. Like people will throw the kitchen sink at this. You know, if I told you to hop on one leg while rubbing your tummy and pointing north for an hour, and that will get at like you would do that. So we throw everything that we can hear. And it's not wrong. It makes sense. But it's we want to do it in a healthy way so that we're and we're looking after ourselves and we looking after our well being, and we're keeping clear on what's right for us and what we have capacity for? And what is actually helpful? What is actually healthy?
15:15
Yeah, what do you think the driver is behind? throwing everything at the problem? What do you think, is behind that? thing, there's
15:31
a few things. One thing is destination happiness. Another thing is we genuinely want our loved one, to be good to live a great life. And then there's an element of I can fix it up got what you need. Yeah. You know, and then from kind of those combination of thoughts and beliefs, and weird wild behavior. Because if we think we can fix it, oh, we will definitely go about trying to do that. Yeah. And I spoke about this today, in one of my workshops, you know, the over function of we think someone can't make their own choices or can't make good choices for themselves. Just watch as we take away their autonomy and start, you know, you must do this, you need to do that. I've recently searched some rehabs that may just give you this information that I've put together, you know, and it's from a good place, place. And if you're not the one struggling with addiction, you don't know what it feels like. You know, you don't know what it feels like. So some, when we know what's helpful, and we know what's unhelpful, we can do more of the helpful stuff, which actually is connection is stepping forward is helping people make good decisions for themselves and not abandoning ourselves along the way. Yeah,
17:25
it's very interesting, isn't it? Because the odd the I remember my mum and dad when I because my dad used to drink more than more than perhaps, I didn't know what the right way to say this. But my dad used to drink more than he more than my mum would have liked to have. And there was always she was always like, trying to control it. And trying to be like, you know, it was very punitive. You know?
17:58
Yeah, I could place it that way.
18:03
And fear, imagine, felt like, yeah, of course, coming from fear. But I imagined that it would have felt like a parent and a child as opposed to two adults.
18:15
Yes, definitely. We can get that way in a spousal relationship. When you start being persecutor.
18:26
And it's
18:27
a dynamic that you don't want to be in. And, and nobody wants,
18:32
right, like, everyone pays.
18:36
No. And, you know, it says, wild again, you think, gosh, I can't believe we're here. Right? Like, what is this? What is going on here? And you're become a parent, your partner becomes the child. Yeah. They resent you for being in that parent role. And you resent them for being in the child role. They ran around we go, yeah. Yeah. And then you know, the cycle we find ourselves in.
19:06
And if so many like, like, I listened to even listening to like Elizabeth Gilbert, for example, talking about splitting up with her partner and her partner or not splitting it with her partner, her partner was very sick and went back to addiction before she passed away. And you know, some of the there's there's quite a lot of
19:35
discussion, spins around enabling and things like that, that are stuff that I'm, I'm not very familiar with, but I have heard those kinds of things in kind of more the FAA type of world that sort of enabling things Wait, you know, people are putting people off and then this whole enabling thing and I Again, I don't know very much about it, Amanda. So I'm coming from probably a bit of ignorance really, in terms of what the things that I've learned from a from the perspective of being a coach working with people who are struggling with alcohol, when the training that I've done, which is very limited around working with friends and family is more that is that keeping that connection open, and being that person so that when they are ready, they know that you're not the, you know, the, but that's all really I know, yeah, I'd be really interested to hear your thoughts around the over.
20:38
I've got a lot to say about enabling, and it's not a helpful turn, shaming and stigmatizing. And just from our brief interactions, you know, I'm not about labels, I don't find them. In my experience helpful. Yeah. Why do we have to label someone as enabling Why do we have to label someone as an addict? You know, like, it just don't doesn't feel right. And when we say to families and spouses stop enabling, or you're enabling, it's just instinct, shame. Yeah, shaming someone doing the best that they can with the information. They're doing what they think is the right thing. Yeah. You know, I'm trying to keep their loved one sided market. Well, sometimes, and this gotta be real. They're trying to keep their loved one alive. Yeah. Yeah. And you're shaming them. And then they people go in more, and they isolate more, and then they're worried Am I doing the wrong thing, and they already don't know what to do here. And then society, and people love giving advice about with nothing. They know that people have not walked down your shoes, and they're telling you you're enabling, or someone that has walked a similar path to you doesn't know what you stand for. doesn't know what's important to you, and telling you you're enabling me to stop. Yeah, so where I get here with enabling, it's incredibly unhelpful, I don't like it, it's shaming on the place x stigmatizing. And it's actually harmful. And that paralyzes people. To they don't know what to do now. Because now they've been told they're enabling Well, I don't want to perpetuate this behavior. Obviously, I want my loved one to be well and be healthy is when a good path to now I don't know what to do. And in many instances, people have withdrawn their support, withdrawn their love, and then the worst thing has happened. And then how do you think their families feel? Yeah. So when I talk to you, and I talk to this a lot. Let's think about because, like you said before, and I would phrase it even more kind of straight to the point. That loved ones, people struggling with alcohol, drugs, problematic behavior, they're behaving in toxic, unhealthy ways. So the family espouses. Okay? We're both behaving unhelpful ways here. And we're both behaving in ways that aren't good for us that aren't good for our family. And sometimes when a loved one is trying to choose a better path, go a bit away, the family and spouses can still be on their toxic unhealthy behavior. So let's think about instead of enabling and nonsense, let's think about our behaviors as healthy and unhealthy. Is this helpful or unhelpful? And I just shared this in a workshop today, the litmus test here is if you can go to sleep with the decisions and choices that you made today that were the right decisions for you to make. Knowing that everyone is different, everyone has different priorities, values, what's okay with them? You know, everyone is different here. What's okay with me? He might not be okay with you. And we're both right.
24:33
Yeah, there's no one right? No,
24:35
there's no one right? And if I want to give my loved one $20 and you rotate your loved one out for dinner, and we've, we're at peace with that decision. That's both right. And when we tell our people to tough love, whatever the other things they say to people to do, you know, kick them out. Whatever it is, it is like it's like you just said before, what is connection? People need connection, the opposite of addiction is connection with boundaries. So it's not just have it. It's, I love you, I love me, this is how we can do that. And a safe way. And I am here. And I love you so that people know as they want support. They're there. I'm here.
25:30
Yeah. So interesting. The boundaries. I'm assuming that's a very strong part of work that you do with humans. Yes. Do you talk about that a little bit.
25:45
Boundaries, because talk all day, and all day. And the funny thing is, we all go through this path of we have no boundaries within we're trying to control people, then we're trying to manipulate people, then we're making requests, then we're, we don't know what we're doing. We're just like a trial and error. And that's why working with someone who can guide you, you miss out on all the trial and error, you just kind of get to what works quickly and without damaging anything. So a lot of us go trial and error and hopefully don't do any damage along the way. And I like to think of boundaries and again, boundaries are unique to yourself. And they you need to yourself in this phase for today. Because we change what's okay with me today might not be okay with me tomorrow. That's That's correct. That's right. And so they're not something they either set forget leave on the shelf. And I like to think about boundaries as How can you stay in your Yes, bubble. So how can you stay in your goodness? Be healthy? Be loving yourself taking care of yourself? Anything that's going to pop that bubble can't come in? Yeah. Anything that's kind of keeping that bubble? Good. We can we're good here. Yeah. Right. Yes. And, and it's maintaining a relationship. So you want to love your person, and you want to love yourself? Love yourself at the same time? How can we do that? Yeah. Yeah, but to do boundaries, you've got to know what you stand for. You're good enough? Or what's okay with you? What's not okay with you? And unfortunately, here, that's why people come to me, Amanda, I just want help with boundaries. And like, Yes, I get it. And also know, because boundaries are like the gutter on the house or the roof of your house, you need the foundations, you need the front door, the walls, the power, the plumbing, which is all the other work you've got to do for yourself, before you get to boundaries. Because how can you set boundaries? If you don't know what you stand for? If you don't know what's okay with you, if you can't have hard conversations, if you can't stand up for yourself, if you can't follow through?
28:13
Which is something that's so hard. Yeah. All right.
28:16
I had. So I had real conversation and being
28:19
like, one of the main reasons, a lot of people that I work with and definitely was for me as well, reasons we drink is because it's so difficult to have the honest conversation with somebody and risk the potential
28:39
for that. Yeah, who wants to know wants to do that?
28:45
For years now, and I still like hide, and I'd like I don't want to ask the difficult got
28:52
me, me to meet her. And no one wants to do that. And a lot of the stuff here that's challenging, you can take kind of almost addiction out of it. It's still challenging. It just makes it more. You know, addiction makes it more so it's hard having a hard conversation. Whether it's a work colleague, a family member is overstepping or a family member isn't respecting, whatever they're not respecting. It's hard to say no to somebody because you don't can't physically do the thing. They want you to do time in a day, whatever it is. That's hard. Yeah.
29:37
And we get it wrong. And we
29:39
get it wrong. And yes, and communicating is hard. Right? Communication is hard. And that's why a boundary we need to get to boundaries. It's like level 10 of the work. I don't know. I don't know what level that is in my program, but you've got to do other stuff first.
29:59
That's right. Well, you've got to find out what you want, isn't it?
30:04
Yeah, it is. And self respect. Yes.
30:06
I remember I had this amazing coach who wants to kill me, they will come a point where you care about yourself so much that the other, you're willing to take to risk losing everything. Because the care for yourself is the most important thing. And people are like, well, that's so selfish. But it's not what it means at all. It just No, no need to have the difficult conversations, right? Because your health and well being matters. Yeah.
30:44
And there's a lot here. But if you had been impacted by a loved one struggle to play, you're on your knees, you know, you might be struggling with your own physical health, your own mental health, how you're showing up in your workplace, as a parent, if you've got children, you're just on your knees, for no one is getting like you're not getting a good version of you. No one else is either to doing your own work here. It's good for you. And then you can show up in a good way. That's right for you that is aligned and your other relationships. Yeah, and so it becomes not, you know that one on one, it's just as not just you and your person. It's you, your person, your other family, parents, children, siblings, work, church, community school, whatever it is, you're on your knees. You're no good to anybody, least of all yourself. So it's working out what's important to you. And sometimes you gotta sacrifice over here. So you can give over here where it's important. And I like to think about it what you just said there. You are going to lose people. You are, you are 100%. And that's hard to deal with. Especially if you're people pleasing and tendencies over here. Because it's going to be hard for the people down, it's going to be hard, disappoint people it's going to be it's me, it's going to be hard to stand up for yourself, advocate for yourself, do what's right for you, because you like to send your work down. This is a priority has to be this way for me. Right? And so on both sides of the street here, you're going to lose people. And this is it's hard, but it's hard. Whatever way you go, it's hard. So I always say choose your heart to your heart and chose to have it's going to get you the better life because 100% that you can have it but you've got to make a choice. Yeah.
33:10
Yeah. And I love that. Thank you so much i so aligned with the work I do as well. Fascinating. Which I know that you because a lot of people talk about when we're in my mind people paces when we're foreigners, when we enter you know, for certain extent as well society creates this right? society or culture or civilization creates a situation where we are not allowed. We haven't been you know, modeled, putting ourselves first and you know, putting in boundaries and things like that. I wondered if because I think it's something that you're knowledgeable about and I wondered whether it's something that's always interested me with the concept of codependency Do you can you talk to what that is and what that idea is?
34:09
It's actually a made up term. But just wild to me, I buy the book somewhere I just to tell people to not read it. And
34:22
somebody somebody recommended it to me and I started it and I have one ah,
34:27
I say there it is on the bookshelf. I started it and I skim read it and I thought, holy moly, yeah, if anyone is reading this, and they're at a really low ebb, this is the stick to beat yourself right.
34:47
And I thought, What is internal?
34:53
So it's that you know, you're putting you're completely dependent on someone else and you kind of live through Then when you do for them and it's transactional and it's you're in the pocket like you don't have your own like autonomy, their autonomy. You're completely dependent on each other. You're putting your own needs above your own. Oh, yeah, all of your own. And I guess it kind of goes hand in hand with a mishmash and those things as well. But you've got no autonomy, and it's all in their pocket. And someone asks, what is the book called? codependent, codependent. codependent no more, it's green, bottle green. And it's a made up term. And, again, it's a label. You are codependent or do does have some tendencies of behavior that made sense in the crisis, chaos situation that you were in. encoded Kindern is not who you are, being an addict is not who you are. Being a people pleaser is not who you are. It is some tendencies. That made sense, in the situation that you were in to survive or felt like you had to behave that way to survive.
36:21
Yeah, it's gonna save from a response.
36:25
Yeah. 100%. And then when you have a bit more capacity, and all the stuff is about capacity, right? You think that does? doesn't serve me? Right? And it's like this the destination happiness? Not, I can create my own happiness. And that's what I'm responsible for. 100% set them a situation. Absolutely. Yeah. And I found that book, I read it with not being in the thick of it. And I just thought, Wow. You know, and so depending on the lens that you're reading it through and the state of play in your life. I would hate for someone to read that and then slap a label on their back is that I'm a codependent
37:28
know how it differs from I know a lot about people pleasing. And I know a lot about forming because of my background, but I don't know very much about codependency is it different kinds of labeling or in terms of the actual day, sort of what the definition of it is,
37:47
to know what the definition of it is. I wouldn't like to say it incorrectly.
37:56
So I get that it's made up time. It's just, it's just interesting. Because like I said, it sounds like a trauma is.
38:04
Yeah. And it's what you had to do to be safe to stay safe.
38:09
That's right. That's right. Jordan here is saying I've accepted that I'm a sports, gambling, get sports, gambling, addicted, and I find myself oversharing labeling myself. It's so interesting. Labels are such an interesting thing. Because for me, there's two because I'm a neurodivergent human being, there's a lot of debate around labeling in the neurodivergent community. And for me and my family, we have found labeling in the neurosurgeon community very helpful. Very, very, very helpful. And so, because it's quite interesting, because there's a lot of similarities in what we're talking about, you know, similarly, people you know, who have got opinions, but don't have any real lived experience knowledge, you know, tries to tell you the things that you should be doing. But I think labels are not labeling is really quite a personal thing. Like I totally get what you're saying because I'm also I'm not a fan of the old alcoholic label or any of that. Again, like you say, it's, it's kind of made up and it's not helpful, but some people find it out.
39:28
Yeah. And that's, that's the that's our system. Gonna say You took the words out of my mouth. Is it helpful or unhelpful? And like this lovely person, Jordan here like I would challenge Challenge Challenge yourself because sometimes the labeling comes through the room urine. And it's the influence of the room your end as to giving yourself a label Like, that's what you've been kind of told to do. And you've bought into that. And if you don't buy into that you kind of can't be part of our group. So, it on first thought you might think, no, it helps me to call myself an alcoholic. And just why me? You know, like, let's be curious here. It's not wrong. But why? You know, and it's, we're putting, and it's about being the workplace, if you want to call yourself a unicorn. You call yourself a unicorn. Right? And that helps you show up every day and live a great life and make good choices. You'd be a unicorn. Yeah. This, I am of the thought that we don't call people by the thing they're struggling with and any other area of life. Yeah, if someone as a base, and then it's 10 years down the track, and they are healthy. living a full life. We
41:13
don't steal your base.
41:17
You know, and we don't refer to people are Amanda, my obese friend or Amanda, my depressed daughter?
41:28
Yes, there's that whole I am. Yeah, blend yourself with a I have to be so careful because I work with people. In intuitively eating as well. So it's, it's sort of like, we talked about the simple parts work, it's kind of like, when, when we're having emotion, emotion experience, and we are blended with our emotion experience, as opposed to, you know, I am feeling sad, or I am the way whereas, you know, in some, like, for example, in the Autistic community, we would say I am autistic. Because it's not their disorder. So yeah.
42:20
Yeah, absolutely. It's
42:23
a slightly different kind of, so there's all these different things different.
42:26
Absolutely. And it's different. And I see. And that is the that's the nuance, right. And some situations, it is incredibly helpful. Amazing. I, when we call people and edit, it's not from a place of positivity. You don't the first, like your thoughts and feelings when you say the word addict? Ah, wow, you know, or tell me more, you know, you know, it's uncomfortable that images, images that conjures up the feelings, it's Yak, or shame, you know? So we want people to live great lives, we want people to come out from underneath us step forward, be on a healthy path, live full lives. So does calling them by something like that? Help? Yeah, language is so important here. And I used to use the term addict alcoholic, rewind a number of years, I didn't know any better. And this is the whole thing of when we know better, we can do better. Yeah. And that's a major thing, right? To get better for the girl in your life. That's so great. And we can change. We as human beings, we can evolve, we can take different paths, we can change, and it's not easy. And it's possible.
44:15
Totally. The two things. Two things. Yeah. Beautiful. Work. Thank you for that. And thank you for explaining that term that I didn't really understand or know as well. I appreciated that. Because I heard it bandied around but I hadn't really, I wasn't really kind of understanding what it meant. But yeah, it's a very interesting thing. They're sleeping. Thank you, Jordan. It was really lovely to hear from you as well. I really appreciate you sharing with us. Yeah, I think it's again, it's like very personalized, and then it's like, is it helping? Like I love what you say there, Amanda? It's like, is it helping or not? Is it helping? Is it moving forward moving you towards your goal? Or is it keeping you
44:59
stuck? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And that. That's why if you find yourself on the Google oh my gosh, sorry, if you find yourself on the Google rabbit hole it's dangerous place to be in like, but we've all done it. We've all gone to Google some advice. Yeah. Is this a problem is that as that this variable doesn't know, who you are, what you stand for, what your priorities are. And, you know, if you can work with someone who can help you navigate the path that makes sense for you. Don't back to boundaries just reminded me I say all the time, you can't copy someone else's boundaries, homework. But it's different. It's a shame like can someone just I will copy what you do. And hopefully we'll get good outcomes. It's a shame. And it's empowering. Because the stuff we're doing here is not just for now, like this will serve you for life. If you can have difficult and challenging conversations, if you can know what you stand for, if you can sit boundaries, if you can prioritize your well being so you can be there for yourself and other people. It is going to help for life.
46:24
Yeah. Thank you, Amanda, I want to absolutely fascinating conversation and you're so knowledgeable about it, I would love to hear heaps more. Because it is an area that's not like, obviously, I'm very familiar with the world of, of having a problematic coping mechanism. But less so we've had to but it is interesting, all kind of always comes back to the same things. It's that sort of self compassion, isn't it? And, you know, looking after ourselves, and, you know, learning how to advocate for ourselves and prioritize ourselves as well, you know, looking after other people. So I appreciate so much for coming on. I've loved meeting you. I'm very interested in what you have to say. Would you be kind enough to share with this group and for me for the podcast, when I published it in a couple of weeks time, ways that people can work with you people ways that people can access your work. Yes.
47:30
Amazing. So I hang out on Instagram, mostly so you can get lots of content stuff on there to kind of sift through and ways you can work with me in person and I support people and one on one coaching and group coaching. Which is kind of the magic so that's how you can work with me I work in all different time zones that are based in Australia. I had clients beautiful pathos scattered around the world. And so you know, we can try and get everyone on there. So yeah, the same medium.
48:11
And your internet address your I'm sorry, your internet's god, I can't speak.
48:19
Alright, bye. Where can we find you on the worldwide web? You can find me on Instagram at addiction makes three t h r e and same on the website. www dot addiction makes three.com
48:35
Brilliant. Thank you so much. I've loved learning from you. And I love all the things that you're saying. I'm I'm I'm loving the bumble analogy as well. That was really cool. So
48:48
I really will speak soon. Yeah,
48:50
lovely to lovely to hang out with you and yeah, definitely. Let's catch up soon. On.
48:55
depo flexing bye
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